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-   -   Kokikai vs Aikikai (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20043)

SRB 07-11-2011 07:20 AM

Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and waiting to start practicing again after the birth of my new baby in a few weeks. I was thinking of switching styles and dojos from Kokikai to Aikikai. Can anyone tell if one is better than the other as far as effectiveness against attackers. I know a lot say that Aikido with ki is softer. But what does that mean? Another thing that draws me toward Aikikai is that it is THE style of Aikido, and most media weather it be print or video seems to be geared toward the Aikikai style. Please help

chillzATL 07-11-2011 07:33 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Shane Bournival wrote: (Post 287593)
Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and waiting to start practicing again after the birth of my new baby in a few weeks. I was thinking of switching styles and dojos from Kokikai to Aikikai. Can anyone tell if one is better than the other as far as effectiveness against attackers. I know a lot say that Aikido with ki is softer. But what does that mean? Another thing that draws me toward Aikikai is that it is THE style of Aikido, and most media weather it be print or video seems to be geared toward the Aikikai style. Please help

There is no "the style" of aikido. IMO I'd stay where you are, you're likely to get more interesting instruction there, but go try the other place and see what you like best.

vjw 07-11-2011 08:08 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Jason Casteel wrote: (Post 287595)
IMO I'd stay where you are, you're likely to get more interesting instruction there, but go try the other place and see what you like best.

What more interesting instruction are you talking about?

robin_jet_alt 07-11-2011 08:19 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
I currently train in Aikikai, and I've trained at a few dojos in a few styles now. I think there is as much variation within Aikikai as there is between Aikikai and other styles. It really all depends on the senseis at the particular dojos you are looking at. Have a look at both and see what looks good to you.

Gorgeous George 07-11-2011 09:34 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Victor Williams wrote: (Post 287598)
What more interesting instruction are you talking about?

+1

Rabih Shanshiry 07-11-2011 10:46 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Shane Bournival wrote: (Post 287593)
Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and waiting to start practicing again after the birth of my new baby in a few weeks. I was thinking of switching styles and dojos from Kokikai to Aikikai. Can anyone tell if one is better than the other as far as effectiveness against attackers. I know a lot say that Aikido with ki is softer. But what does that mean? Another thing that draws me toward Aikikai is that it is THE style of Aikido, and most media weather it be print or video seems to be geared toward the Aikikai style. Please help

If effectiveness against attackers is what you are looking for, then I'd suggest to look outside of Aikido for that...it offers a slower learning curve than other approaches if self-defense is your priority.

If you are looking for effectiveness within Aikido, I agree with the post that it is all about the instructor.

That said, there are some styles which generally lend themselves to developing effective technique in a shorter period of time than the Kokikai or typical Aikikai approach.

You might check out Yoshinkan, Yoseikan, or Tomiki Aikido if there are any representative dojos in your area.

SRB 07-11-2011 11:32 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Rabih Shanshiry wrote: (Post 287613)
If effectiveness against attackers is what you are looking for, then I'd suggest to look outside of Aikido for that...it offers a slower learning curve than other approaches if self-defense is your priority.

If you are looking for effectiveness within Aikido, I agree with the post that it is all about the instructor.

That said, there are some styles which generally lend themselves to developing effective technique in a shorter period of time than the Kokikai or typical Aikikai approach.

You might check out Yoshinkan, Yoseikan, or Tomiki Aikido if there are any representative dojos in your area.

I mis spoke by saying effectiveness against attackers. I was trying to get others opinions on which style they thought was "better" and which style offered a more traditional Aikido. Without a starting a "my style is better than yours" debate. LOL Anyway I appreciate all of your advice thank you to all.

Janet Rosen 07-11-2011 12:08 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Shane Bournival wrote: (Post 287619)
I mis spoke by saying effectiveness against attackers. I was trying to get others opinions on which style they thought was "better" and which style offered a more traditional Aikido. Without a starting a "my style is better than yours" debate. LOL Anyway I appreciate all of your advice thank you to all.

"Better" depends entirely on YOUR goals, what teaching methods work best for you, and who the teacher is.

SmilingNage 07-11-2011 12:42 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
A better question would net you a better answer I think. We all tend to agree its the teacher not the style, You should ask/search for teachers in your area, ask for opinions of the dojo. Then go see for yourself. Then ask if you can pay a mat fee and take a class.

That's about as brief of explanation I could give you. Good Luck

inframan 07-11-2011 12:47 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Aikikai is an organisation not a style.

lbb 07-11-2011 01:10 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

William Oakes wrote: (Post 287627)
A better question would net you a better answer I think.

That. Your original question is like walking into a hardware store and asking a customer service agent, "Which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver?"

mickeygelum 07-11-2011 01:28 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

"Which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver?"
A Hammer, of course.
You are always able to pound in a screw,
but not screw in a nail! ;)

sakumeikan 07-11-2011 06:28 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Michael Gelum wrote: (Post 287633)
A Hammer, of course.
You are always able to pound in a screw,
but not screw in a nail! ;)

Dear Michael,
Whats to stop you from hitting the nail with the handle of the screwdriver? Show some imagination and initiative !!! One has to adapt to the situation. Cheers, Joe

crbateman 07-11-2011 06:29 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Shane, whether or not one "brand" of aikido is better for YOU than another has less to do with "style" and more to do with your likes and needs, and the quality of your instructor. Go with what feels best to YOU.

jester 07-11-2011 08:52 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 287639)
Whats to stop you from hitting the nail with the handle of the screwdriver? Show some imagination and initiative !!! One has to adapt to the situation. Cheers, Joe

The modern cheap plastics will shatter!! :crazy:

-

David Yap 07-11-2011 10:01 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Michael Gelum wrote: (Post 287633)
A Hammer, of course.
You are always able to pound in a screw,
but not screw in a nail! ;)

Which is better, a nail or a screw? Different intent and different purpose.

You fight the way you train. "Fight" - as in fighting for your life.

dps 07-12-2011 12:40 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 287639)
Dear Michael,
Whats to stop you from hitting the nail with the handle of the screwdriver? Show some imagination and initiative !!! One has to adapt to the situation. Cheers, Joe

Have you ever try to drive a nail with the handle of a screwdriver?

Easier and faster with a hammer.

dps

vjw 07-12-2011 11:14 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 287631)
That. Your original question is like walking into a hardware store and asking a customer service agent, "Which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver?"

IMO a screwdriver is better. You will find it much more interesting.

Cliff Judge 07-12-2011 12:57 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
There is a lot of difference in the technical syllabus and approach of Kokikai vs mainstream Aikido. The difference is enough that you should pick one or the other and stick with it for awhile; switching before you've trained for a couple of years is likely to be an exercise in unlearning.

And having said that, Kokikai is a smaller organization. If you want access to their top-level people, you might have to travel farther for seminars and such.

Mario Tobias 07-12-2011 07:12 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
my experience is that rather than search for an organization/style, search for a teacher that excels in his craft.

the teacher would have a big influence on how you would excel at the art. They are few so it would take a while for your search. It took me 22 years before I found a teacher that I'm happy to stick with.

my 2 cents.

Basia Halliop 07-12-2011 09:12 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Aikikai is more of an organisation than a 'style' - not much technical uniformity within it.

And in any case the difference in quality of teaching between different dojos within any one organisation is so huge that it makes it almost meaningless, to me, to ask what style you should train in without knowing what teachers from those styles you're considering.

Visit the dojos and find out more about the individual dojos and teachers. Then you'll actually have something to base a decision on.

nagoyajoe 10-22-2011 02:37 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 287623)
"Better" depends entirely on YOUR goals, what teaching methods work best for you, and who the teacher is.

Well said, Janet!

jlbrewer 10-27-2011 08:27 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Shane, though I'm a (new) Kokikai student, I don't know your teacher, though my senseis almost certainly do. And they will say that even in Kokikai, which has a standardized curriculum, in every organization, it's a different experience from dojo to dojo. For myself, I think as an organization, Kokikai has evolved some insights about aikido practice that work very well for me, trying to demystify "ki" and tries to strike a balance being both "soft" and martially effective. But your experience might be nothing like mine. (And having seen the "body, mind, motion" website Rochester Kokikai runs, I'm pretty sure that's the case). So it's like the others said, you need to evaluate on your own.

Larry Feldman 10-28-2011 09:03 AM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Go see a few classes and decide for yourself.

Having trained before is to your advantage for assessing what is being taught.

Rick Berry 11-21-2011 02:50 PM

Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai
 
Styles, systems, names and no names have no bearing on the outcome of your agenda. As a former practitioner of Tae Kwon Do ( 45 years) and a current (Kokikai, 27 years) aikido advocate I can tell you with conviction that not having to fight my way pass ukes defenses is much easier. It is a given that all aikido techniques are not designed for fighting they are ideas for learning to lead ukes mind (and body) to a place of unbalance which opens uke up for some very nasty strikes.

Having been on this planet for 72 years it is my observation and judgement that what counts more than anything else is the quality of the teacher and the determination of the student. If both are very high the outcome will probably be successful.


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