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-   -   My Rope Theory (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19280)

graham christian 01-19-2011 12:15 PM

My Rope Theory
 
HI. Thought I might share with you a viewpoint of mine and equate it with Aikido as a whole. The reason I havn't posted it on an ongoing thread is that I believe it deserves it's own, we shall see.

I call it The Rope Theory and in it's simplicity it is this:

Imagine the whole of Aikido, all organizations, all styles, all individuals are all part of one rope called Aikido.

Now every individual is a strand of that rope.

That's the basic theory and it leads to fascinating questions.

As I see it you can then look at Aikido as a whole and see what makes it stronger and what makes it potentially a weak rope.
If the strands argue and fight each other for example then it is not good for the rope.

If a strand thinks it is the rope then it is deluded.

If a strand turns against other strands then it is banning itself from the rope.

So what makes the rope stronger?

My opinion is when a strand realizes it is a strand and all others are strands in their own right and then through sharing the rope itself gains strength and quality.

To me it's one of those analogies that the more you look at the more you see. For example you could look at all people in the world being strands of the same rope etc. etc.

Thus when one strand goes against others it is obvious from this analogy that it is defeating it'self. For example if a person decides they are against people with green eyes then that person has opposed millions, one verses millions. The thread thus destroys it'self and the rope becomes that much weaker.

I thoght in an Aikido context and indeed this Aikiweb Rope this analogy may help and even lead to some fun responses. Anyway got to go training in half an hour.

Regards. G.

Richard Stevens 01-19-2011 01:00 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
But what if the rope is made from nylon?

gates 01-19-2011 01:02 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Think its definitely food for thought.

It reminds me of another similar analogy, it suggests that Aikido is like a tree.

Some Aikido takes the form of Roots - pure Iwama style
Some take the form of the trunk - mainstream yoshinkan, hombu style
Some take the form of branches - more stylized individual forms
Some take the form of leaves - "ki no michi"
(you can argue who is what part of the tree but it is a bit irrelevant, unless you think the trunk is better than roots or leaves are better than branches)

Importantly for the tree to survive it needs roots, a trunk, branches and leaves.

You don't see the branches of a tree fighting with the roots for survival. They exist as part of the same entity and need each other to form a big healthy strong tree.

I will think more about your analogy.
Thanks for sharing.
Keith

Mary Eastland 01-19-2011 01:36 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
I like both analogies...it reminds of the beautiful quote that starts Niall's blog.
Mary

carina reinhardt 01-19-2011 02:15 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Mary Eastland wrote: (Post 273692)
I like both analogies...it reminds of the beautiful quote that starts Niall's blog.
Mary

I also like them both, they mean the rope must hold together also the tree, each one is nothing without any part. And the Moon is always there even when we don't see it. By the way today we have a beautiful big round moon.

Demetrio Cereijo 01-19-2011 02:22 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Carina Reinhardt wrote: (Post 273702)
By the way today we have a beautiful big round moon.

QED
:D

phitruong 01-19-2011 03:12 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
you know, the japanese has a whole art on how to tie folks with rope which i believed is quite popular with the "tie me up, tie me down" culture. anyone know what sort of rope to use for that? just curious, mind you! and that's my story and i will stick to it! :D

still trying to understand how rope relates to aikido, unless they made from marijuana, which would give raise to the spirit and so on and so forth. :)

read somewhere "if everyone agrees on everything, there is something wrong with that."

SeiserL 01-19-2011 03:24 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
So the "rope theory" is like "string theory" but with a larger diameter?

carina reinhardt 01-19-2011 03:37 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 273711)
you know, the japanese has a whole art on how to tie folks with rope which i believed is quite popular with the "tie me up, tie me down" culture. anyone know what sort of rope to use for that? just curious, mind you! and that's my story and i will stick to it! :D

still trying to understand how rope relates to aikido, unless they made from marijuana, which would give raise to the spirit and so on and so forth. :)

read somewhere "if everyone agrees on everything, there is something wrong with that."

Elephant and the blid men
Once upon a time, there lived six blind men in a village. One day the villagers told them, "Hey, there is an elephant in the village today."

They had no idea what an elephant is. They decided, "Even though we would not be able to see it, let us go and feel it anyway." All of them went where the elephant was. Everyone of them touched the elephant.
"Hey, the elephant is a pillar," said the first man who touched his leg.

"Oh, no! it is like a rope," said the second man who touched the tail.

"Oh, no! it is like a thick branch of a tree," said the third man who touched the trunk of the elephant.

"It is like a big hand fan" said the fourth man who touched the ear of the elephant.

"It is like a huge wall," said the fifth man who touched the belly of the elephant.

"It is like a solid pipe," Said the sixth man who touched the tusk of the elephant.

They began to argue about the elephant and everyone of them insisted that he was right. It looked like they were getting agitated. A wise man was passing by and he saw this. He stopped and asked them, "What is the matter?" They said, "We cannot agree to what the elephant is like." Each one of them told what he thought the elephant was like. The wise man calmly explained to them, "All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all those features what you all said."

"Oh!" everyone said. There was no more fight. They felt happy that they were all right.

The moral of the story is that there may be some truth to what someone says. Sometimes we can see that truth and sometimes not because they may have different perspective which we may not agree too. So, rather than arguing like the blind men, we should say, "Maybe you have your reasons."

Maybe now you might understand it better. Each branch of aikido sees his line like the blind men each part of the elephant. So everybody is right and see his own truth

Demetrio Cereijo 01-19-2011 03:46 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Do you know the story of the elephant, the blid men and the surgeon ophthalmologist?

Janet Rosen 01-19-2011 03:50 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Rope, eh? ...If you think it's a matter of one sisal fit all ...

carina reinhardt 01-19-2011 04:03 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: (Post 273716)
Do you know the story of the elephant, the blid men and the surgeon ophthalmologist?

Maybe thats what we need a surgeon ophthalmologist...

David Board 01-19-2011 04:42 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 273717)
Rope, eh? ...If you think it's a matter of one sisal fit all ...

Twisted.

Janet Rosen 01-19-2011 05:50 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

David Board wrote: (Post 273723)
Twisted.

Knot at all.

phitruong 01-19-2011 05:51 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 273731)
Knot at all.

bit of a stretch

graham christian 01-19-2011 07:17 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 273713)
So the "rope theory" is like "string theory" but with a larger diameter?

Ahhhh Grasshopper!!!

graham christian 01-19-2011 07:24 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Keith Gates wrote: (Post 273691)
Think its definitely food for thought.

It reminds me of another similar analogy, it suggests that Aikido is like a tree.

Some Aikido takes the form of Roots - pure Iwama style
Some take the form of the trunk - mainstream yoshinkan, hombu style
Some take the form of branches - more stylized individual forms
Some take the form of leaves - "ki no michi"
(you can argue who is what part of the tree but it is a bit irrelevant, unless you think the trunk is better than roots or leaves are better than branches)

Importantly for the tree to survive it needs roots, a trunk, branches and leaves.

You don't see the branches of a tree fighting with the roots for survival. They exist as part of the same entity and need each other to form a big healthy strong tree.

I will think more about your analogy.
Thanks for sharing.
Keith

I like it. Thanks. G.

graham christian 01-19-2011 07:35 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Carina Reinhardt wrote: (Post 273714)
Elephant and the blid men
Once upon a time, there lived six blind men in a village. One day the villagers told them, "Hey, there is an elephant in the village today."

They had no idea what an elephant is. They decided, "Even though we would not be able to see it, let us go and feel it anyway." All of them went where the elephant was. Everyone of them touched the elephant.
"Hey, the elephant is a pillar," said the first man who touched his leg.

"Oh, no! it is like a rope," said the second man who touched the tail.

"Oh, no! it is like a thick branch of a tree," said the third man who touched the trunk of the elephant.

"It is like a big hand fan" said the fourth man who touched the ear of the elephant.

"It is like a huge wall," said the fifth man who touched the belly of the elephant.

"It is like a solid pipe," Said the sixth man who touched the tusk of the elephant.

They began to argue about the elephant and everyone of them insisted that he was right. It looked like they were getting agitated. A wise man was passing by and he saw this. He stopped and asked them, "What is the matter?" They said, "We cannot agree to what the elephant is like." Each one of them told what he thought the elephant was like. The wise man calmly explained to them, "All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all those features what you all said."

"Oh!" everyone said. There was no more fight. They felt happy that they were all right.

The moral of the story is that there may be some truth to what someone says. Sometimes we can see that truth and sometimes not because they may have different perspective which we may not agree too. So, rather than arguing like the blind men, we should say, "Maybe you have your reasons."

Maybe now you might understand it better. Each branch of aikido sees his line like the blind men each part of the elephant. So everybody is right and see his own truth

Very nice. I must follow the way of the tail.

Randall Lim 01-19-2011 07:44 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Graham Christian wrote: (Post 273685)
HI. Thought I might share with you a viewpoint of mine and equate it with Aikido as a whole. The reason I havn't posted it on an ongoing thread is that I believe it deserves it's own, we shall see.

I call it The Rope Theory and in it's simplicity it is this:

Imagine the whole of Aikido, all organizations, all styles, all individuals are all part of one rope called Aikido.

Now every individual is a strand of that rope.

That's the basic theory and it leads to fascinating questions.

As I see it you can then look at Aikido as a whole and see what makes it stronger and what makes it potentially a weak rope.
If the strands argue and fight each other for example then it is not good for the rope.

If a strand thinks it is the rope then it is deluded.

If a strand turns against other strands then it is banning itself from the rope.

So what makes the rope stronger?

My opinion is when a strand realizes it is a strand and all others are strands in their own right and then through sharing the rope itself gains strength and quality.

To me it's one of those analogies that the more you look at the more you see. For example you could look at all people in the world being strands of the same rope etc. etc.

Thus when one strand goes against others it is obvious from this analogy that it is defeating it'self. For example if a person decides they are against people with green eyes then that person has opposed millions, one verses millions. The thread thus destroys it'self and the rope becomes that much weaker.

I thoght in an Aikido context and indeed this Aikiweb Rope this analogy may help and even lead to some fun responses. Anyway got to go training in half an hour.

Regards. G.

From an Engineering point of view, a multi-strand rope is much stronger & more flexible than a solid homogenous (single-core) rope of the same material & thickness.

Reason: Friction between each strand helps keep the rope together & make the rope stronger. While the ability for each strand to subtly slide along each other helps in the rope's flexibility.

From the Aikido point of view, instead of friction, it would be inter-club bonding that keeps the Aikido rope strong. While the ability for each club to subtly vary in approaches & styles to offer society a wider perspective of Aikido.

Each club or Aikidoka only percieves a small aspect of the wider Aikido. No one can claim that he knows & understands the whole of Aikido. Only O-Sensei can.

danielajames 01-19-2011 07:46 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
I'm a frayed knot ;)

More like a spiders web, with the great o'sensei arachnid in the centre. Sometimes the web grows more in one direction at the edges than another and inhabited today by many - sometimes cannibalistically so :)

dan

danielajames 01-19-2011 07:50 PM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
And for a sufficiently large web, many may claim to be closest ( or indeed reside at) the centre.

Which bothers those of us that think we are already there LOL

Carsten Möllering 01-20-2011 02:13 AM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Carina Reinhardt wrote: (Post 273714)
... So everybody is right and see his own truth

If you stay practicing, someday a time will come when you have to decide what your own truth is.
Not because someone urges you (at least I hope noone will do), but because you have to walk your own way, do your own ikkyo, you will have to choose from some given possibilities.
And when you do, you will know why you make this decision. And why you stay away from other possibilities.

Looking at aikido I don' tknow whether everybody is right. I sometimens think that some teachers (not styles) are "more right" than others. At least here Germany.)
But I do know that not everyone can go every way or live every truth.

Practicing aikido you have to choose your style, your dojo, your teacher, your way of practicing, of doing it.
At least after some time, when grow up, become more mature and more confident you will have to.
(To stay with your first dojo or your first teacher also is a decision. Not to seek other truths in seminars or in dojo far away on the mainland but "stay at home" also is a decision. [My teacher lives about 300 km ~ 190 miles from here. The teacher of my teacher lives in Japan. ...])

So "everybody is right" certainly is true in one sense.
But everyone has to live ones own specific, certain truths.
Whenever possible connected (atari ...) with those of the others.

Makes me think of the "Essence" thread: Practicing aikido also leads to "finding one's own truth" in some respects.

Nicholas Eschenbruch 01-20-2011 02:36 AM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 273711)
you know, the japanese has a whole art on how to tie folks with rope which i believed is quite popular with the "tie me up, tie me down" culture. anyone know what sort of rope to use for that? just curious, mind you! and that's my story and i will stick to it! :D

still trying to understand how rope relates to aikido, unless they made from marijuana, which would give raise to the spirit and so on and so forth. :)

read somewhere "if everyone agrees on everything, there is something wrong with that."

Phi, it's probably this rope you are thinking of....

"Dear Ellis,
Enclosed is the Mouldy Rope. You are hereby dubbed Knight of the Mouldy Rope. An ancient order it is not, a noble rectitude is not found among its members, thee and me, time-hallowed rituals have we none. The Mouldy Rope may be worn about the person to affix the trou, used as a trivet for hot vessels, for binding jaws of dragons slain or captive, for a little B & D action with the ladies. When lost, burned or otherwise irretrievably engaged, the MR may be substituted for by something else. New knights and ladies may be appointed subject to unanimous assent of all Knights of MR, but sparingly. Big tits alone, shall not constitute grounds fo admission, but certain levies, tithes and assessments shall be waived upon their presentation for inspection to the examination board.
Yours truly,
Terry Dobson, KMR"

It apparently plays a very important role in the oral traditions of Terry Dobson's lineage of Aikido...

(From Ellis Amdur, Dueling with O-Sensei, Seattle: Edgework 2000, p 189. For more touching iconoclast context, buy the wonderful book: http://www.ellisamdur.com/buy-books-...tial-arts.html )

carina reinhardt 01-20-2011 04:23 AM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Thank you Carsten, I'm now practicing almost 7 years and began with another teacher. I think I'll stay with my actual teacher, as long as he will teaching. The teacher of my teacher is in Tenerife and his teacher is in France,. My actual teacher is a great wise man who can deal with all kind of characters we have in our dojo, there is always good connection between all of us and that is the most important thing as well as we all are improving very good( said by our teacher Frank Noel in our last seminar)

shakou 01-20-2011 04:23 AM

Re: My Rope Theory
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 273711)
you know, the japanese has a whole art on how to tie folks with rope which i believed is quite popular with the "tie me up, tie me down" culture. anyone know what sort of rope to use for that? just curious, mind you! and that's my story and i will stick to it! :D

still trying to understand how rope relates to aikido, unless they made from marijuana, which would give raise to the spirit and so on and so forth. :)

read somewhere "if everyone agrees on everything, there is something wrong with that."

Ha ha, the art is Shibari and makes for interesting "artistic" photography and they use, or used to use, a hemp rope. This rope caused chafing which meant the oppressed (?) would struggle less. I read this somewhere, don't remember where :D


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