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Lachlan Kadick 11-06-2010 05:59 PM

Kamiza
 
This is the discussion thread for the AikiWiki article "Kamiza".

Please add comments below regarding the article.

Josh Reyer 11-06-2010 09:53 PM

Re: Kamiza
 
The shrine is called a kamidana 神棚, not kamiza 上座. That's something altogether different.

aikishihan 11-07-2010 08:34 AM

Re: Kamiza
 
It is perhaps better to diffuse, rather than to confuse.

Religious, cultural or spiritual references are easily misunderstood, and even misused by a variety of people.

In my dojo, we refer to the front of the dojo as the "Shomen", usually with a picture of the Founder, and emphasizing no religious, spiritual or obligatory connotations at all.

It is simply the focal point of attention to that training hour for all in willing attendance.

David Maidment 11-07-2010 09:25 AM

Re: Kamiza
 
Genuine question: at what point does widespread confusion over a term make the new term 'official'. Think 'West Indies' and similar.

Dan Rubin 11-07-2010 10:22 AM

Re: Kamiza
 
Quote:

Joshua Reyer wrote: (Post 267796)
The shrine is called a kamidana 神棚, not kamiza 上座. That's something altogether different.

Thanks, Josh. I, too, have always thought that kami meant "gods" in both.

Mark B. Gibson 12-24-2010 01:05 PM

Re: Kamiza
 
That is a horrible inaccurate article and should be removed at once.

Kamidana 神棚, is the actual wooden shrine made out of Hinoki wood (桧 Japanese cypress wood). Kamiza 上座 is actually the "seat of honor", which refers to the location where a kamidana should be placed.

Further, it is not "just" about tradition or honoring the "founders"...

Shinto is a religion. Most western MA teachers are pretending and lying that it is not, and the kamidana and bowing ritual is only a matter of respecting the tradition and founders. This is completely wrong. People cheat, lie and try to bend things the way they want for their own selfish purposes.

The facts are, for Christians that they should not bow for other gods... (it is in the bible...) Which is exactly what they are doing bowing in front of a Kamidana. The worship of other gods is a reason for excommunication.

Shinto is a religion and that is a fact. Worshiping a Shinto altar (Kamidana), is worshiping "other gods". Over a 100 million Japanese observe Shinto events (e.g. New Years, Shogatsu) and visit their local shrines. Public dojo, like community centers or public school dojo (shogakko/elementary,chugakko/Junior High School and Koko/High School) do NOT have Kamidana, because of the separation of Religion and State under the Japanese Constitution.

Christians, Muslims, etc, that bow to a Kamidana have some serious soul searching to do...

akiy 12-24-2010 01:13 PM

Re: Kamiza
 
Hi Mark,

As the original article is in the AikiWiki section in which all articles are editable by AikiWeb members, please feel encouraged to improve upon the article to help out the community.

Thank you,

-- Jun

TreyPrice 01-19-2011 06:23 AM

Re: Kamiza
 
Mark you missed on the "worship" part of you retort. As a Western, Christian Martial Artist I can make a destintion between worshiping and respecting another faith or philosophy. I bow out of respect, not worship. I have traveled the world and entered all types of religious buildings. In every case I was respectful to the place and the people there. That's not worship, its respect. My dojo is located in a Christian Church annex building, and for a while we had an Anglican Priest training with us. No one has a problem with it.

Aikido more than anyother MA is in keeping with my Christian values and beliefs. Well, I guess we could say that about most faiths couldn't we. I think our souls will be fine.

Just my $.02. Peace be with you.

mathewjgano 01-19-2011 10:31 AM

Re: Kamiza
 
Quote:

Mark Gibson wrote: (Post 270957)
Shinto is a religion and that is a fact. Worshiping a Shinto altar (Kamidana), is worshiping "other gods". Over a 100 million Japanese observe Shinto events (e.g. New Years, Shogatsu) and visit their local shrines.
Christians, Muslims, etc, that bow to a Kamidana have some serious soul searching to do...

Most of the Japanese people I met described their role in attending Shinto events as non-religious in nature.
Yes, worshipping the altar, would not be worshiping "God." However, a distinction can be made (and is up to the individual to adopt or not) between bowing and worshiping. If one can bow to their king (who is not God) and be said to not be worshiping said king, why not kamiza?
So for some, bowing to shomen where kamiza or shinza are, is just showing respect for the tradition.


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