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-   -   Correct kanji for Sen no Sen (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18713)

David Yap 09-23-2010 04:19 AM

Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
To the Nihon-go sensei,

What is the correct kanji to read "sen no sen"?

or or

I notice that the first and second character have been used on the Net, then I came upon the third.

Thanks in advance,

David Y

niall 09-23-2010 04:59 AM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
It's the second one David, 先. 先の先 is sen no sen. It can also be read saki no saki. It's the same kanji as sen in sensei 先生.

David Yap 09-29-2010 01:22 PM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
Quote:

Niall Matthews wrote: (Post 264893)
It's the second one David, 先. 先の先 is sen no sen. It can also be read saki no saki. It's the same kanji as sen in sensei 先生.

Thanks, Niall.

niall 10-08-2010 06:07 AM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
David I used go no sen and sen no sen in my blog post this week. So thanks for the seeds of the idea (well thanks to the butterfly too).

http://www.aikiweb.com/blogs/moon-in...utterfly-4031/

Cheers, Niall

Carl Thompson 10-08-2010 06:40 AM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
This reminded me of an old interview with Osensei:

http://www.aiki-shuren-dojo.com/pdf/Go%20no%20sen.pdf

Quote:

B: Does that mean ou no sen? (also called go no sen; this term refers to a defensive response to an attack.)
O Sensei: Absolutely not. It is not a question of either sensen no sen or sen no sen.
Carl

David Yap 10-09-2010 06:39 AM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
Quote:

Niall Matthews wrote: (Post 265914)
David I used go no sen and sen no sen in my blog post this week. So thanks for the seeds of the idea (well thanks to the butterfly too).

http://www.aikiweb.com/blogs/moon-in...utterfly-4031/

Cheers, Niall

Another good blog, Niall. Good job.

Cheers

David Y

David Yap 10-09-2010 07:11 AM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
Quote:

Carl Thompson wrote: (Post 265915)
This reminded me of an old interview with Osensei:

http://www.aiki-shuren-dojo.com/pdf/Go%20no%20sen.pdf

Carl

Yes, I was thinking of this interview after doing a Shorinji Kempo technique named "Johakku Dori" (sic) last night. For the technique to work effortlessly, I need to manipulate uke's elbow once he grabbed my biceps. I looked at uke's broken posture and it reminded me of the postures of uke of Inoue hanshi during his seminars doing katatedori or just grabbing his index finger. The difference between SK and aikido is that we need to one or two extra steps to off-balance uke in SK, while uke's balance is taken upon engagement (atari) in aikido.

To manipulate...to control :straightf

Cheers.

Risu 05-30-2011 02:08 PM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
From my understanding of the language and the concept, I believe that go no sen is 後の戦, sen no sen is 先の戦, and sensen no sen is 先々の戦. The first, go no sen, meaning "post-war", the second, sen no sen, meaning "battle ahead", and the third, sensen no sen, meaning "battle of the distant future." One of my friends described sensen no sen as taking action when you see intent, sen no sen as as the attack begins/ at the same time as the attack, and go no sen as after the attack has begun.

Chris Li 05-30-2011 03:11 PM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
Quote:

Melissa Miller wrote: (Post 284643)
From my understanding of the language and the concept, I believe that go no sen is 後の戦, sen no sen is 先の戦, and sensen no sen is 先々の戦. The first, go no sen, meaning "post-war", the second, sen no sen, meaning "battle ahead", and the third, sensen no sen, meaning "battle of the distant future." One of my friends described sensen no sen as taking action when you see intent, sen no sen as as the attack begins/ at the same time as the attack, and go no sen as after the attack has begun.

Actually, it's 後の先、先の先、先々の先

The "war" kanji isn't used in this case.

Best,

Chris

abraxis 05-30-2011 04:33 PM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 284650)
...One of my friends described sensen no sen as taking action when you see intent, sen no sen as as the attack begins/ at the same time as the attack, and go no sen as after the attack has begun. Chris

Don't know if this is too random an association or if it actually applies, but I remember being told that regarding being attacked and counter-atttacking in Iaido there is before, there is before before, and then there is before before before. Beyond that it is all theory. If I might ask, what would the relevant kanji be for these concepts? Best regards, :)

Chris Li 05-31-2011 01:16 AM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
Quote:

Rudy Ternbach wrote: (Post 284658)
Don't know if this is too random an association or if it actually applies, but I remember being told that regarding being attacked and counter-atttacking in Iaido there is before, there is before before, and then there is before before before. Beyond that it is all theory. If I might ask, what would the relevant kanji be for these concepts? Best regards, :)

Umm - the kanji were in the post that you quoted...

Anyway, try http://www.kendo-guide.com/terminology_sen.html

Best,

Chris

abraxis 05-31-2011 06:50 AM

Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 284685)
Umm - the kanji were in the post that you quoted...

Anyway, try http://www.kendo-guide.com/terminology_sen.html

Best,

Chris

Hi,

I was quoting from #9 above where Melissa writes and you reply but the kanji are not readable::

"From my understanding of the language and the concept, I believe that go no sen is Œのˆ, sen no sen is …ˆのˆ, and sensen no sen is …ˆ€…のˆ. The first, go no sen, meaning "post-war", the second, sen no sen, meaning "battle ahead", and the third, sensen no sen, meaning "battle of the distant future." One of my friends described sensen no sen as taking action when you see intent, sen no sen as as the attack begins/ at the same time as the attack, and go no sen as after the attack has begun."

"Actually, it's Œの…ˆ€…ˆの…ˆ€…ˆ€…の…ˆThe "war" kanji isn't used in this case."
----------------------------------------------------------
So, if I understand correctly, sen=saki=before when describing a sequence of events (martial or otherwise). I remember from Go that sen-te is described as having the lead or the right to choose first where to make the next play as opposed to being forced to answer your partner's move.

Many thanks for the link.

Best regards,

Rudy


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