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-   -   Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17888)

seele 03-26-2010 09:05 AM

Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
I've heard "mai" "maimatsu" called out as a way of yielding to an opponent, either as an alternative to tap out of a pin or at the end/loss of a practice bout (I've heard it most often in sports such as kendo). However, I can't seem to find any translations to figure out what this means -- and perhaps I have the assumed translation and romaji incorrect. Any ideas? :confused:

Josh Reyer 03-26-2010 09:22 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Perhaps something got lost in translation. The only words I know for "I yield" in Japanese are "maitta" and it's politer equivalent "mairimashita".

raul rodrigo 03-26-2010 09:39 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
"Maitta" is the word used in judo matches.

Don_Modesto 03-26-2010 10:39 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Quote:

Raul Rodrigo wrote: (Post 254565)
"Maitta" is the word used in judo matches.

When is this used (vs the tap out?)

raul rodrigo 03-26-2010 10:56 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
The word "maitta" is used when for one reason or another the man pinned cannot tap, eg, one arm is in juji gatame, the other trapped underneath him or otherwise entangled. Or so my judo referee friend says.

Walter Martindale 03-26-2010 12:10 PM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
both of my judo sensei said it is equivalent to saying "I'm beaten" when you can't tap out... "Maitta"
Walter

seele 03-26-2010 02:46 PM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Thank you everyone for your replies! I might have missed the last syllable when I actually heard maitta.

Is matte also used in judo? I remember hearing this but I thought matte means to wait, not to yield or stop.

Josh Reyer 03-26-2010 05:08 PM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Quote:

Celeste Lyn Paul wrote: (Post 254586)
Thank you everyone for your replies! I might have missed the last syllable when I actually heard maitta.

Is matte also used in judo? I remember hearing this but I thought matte means to wait, not to yield or stop.

Matte - "Wait."

Maitta - "I yield."

"Matte" wouldn't be used to indicate submission. An imperative form, "Mate" is used in judo as an instruction by the referee, generally meaning "Time (out)."

seank 03-28-2010 03:12 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
We used to use matte practicing kumite in Kyokushin when we were injured enough from a kick or punch that we couldn't continue...

I was construed as somewhere between wait and an "...I can't go on"

Stormcrow34 03-28-2010 01:16 PM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Sometimes, you just can't physically tap, or tap quickly enough, so we use "Maitta" in Yoseikan Budo as a way to verbally tap out. It's just like saying "uncle".

DonMagee 03-29-2010 05:57 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
My judo coach has never made the distinction. We use "matte" for stop or tap. If the coach says it, you stop. If you can't tap and you say it, your partner stops.

Walter Martindale 03-29-2010 01:05 PM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
"Chotto matte kudasai" - please wait a moment.
Matte - in judo - pause or wait, or stop fighting (but the match isn't necessarily over yet).
Maitta - I'm beaten, or I give up, or....
Itai, Itai, Itai (ow, ow, ow or hurts, hurts, hurts)

my understanding, anyway..
Walter

phitruong 03-29-2010 01:30 PM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
usually i slapped whatever available and screamed "MA MA!" worked in any language, well most languages. :D

*wouldn't advise staining your gi for good affect. however, if it works go for it!* :)

David Orange 03-30-2010 08:52 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Quote:

Joshua Reyer wrote: (Post 254563)
Perhaps something got lost in translation. The only words I know for "I yield" in Japanese are "maitta" and it's politer equivalent "mairimashita".

I've been thinking this comes from "makeru," which is "to be beaten (in a sporting event)" or "to lose (in a sporting event)".

I understood "maeta" to be s shortened form of "maketa", meaning "I lost" (or "you won").

In fact, I think I remember one of the guys telling me that once, a long, long time ago...

Best wishes.

David

Josh Reyer 03-30-2010 10:36 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Quote:

David Orange wrote: (Post 254747)
I've been thinking this comes from "makeru," which is "to be beaten (in a sporting event)" or "to lose (in a sporting event)".

I understood "maeta" to be s shortened form of "maketa", meaning "I lost" (or "you won").

In fact, I think I remember one of the guys telling me that once, a long, long time ago...

Best wishes.

David

Linguistically, that seems very unlikely. The lost medial "k-" occurs preceding "-i", thus "kaku" -> "kakita" -> "kaita", but not preceding "-e".

From a classical Japanese perspective, "kaku" was called a "four degree verb" (yondan doushi). When attached to the perfective "ta(ri)", it changed to "kaki-ta(ri)", and then thus through linguistic shift became modern "kaita".

What I suspect someone suggested to you was that "makeru" originally came from a verb "maku". Perhaps they then conjectured that from "maku" came "maita", like "kaita" came from "kaku".

However, "maku" was a "shimo-nidan doushi" (lower two-level verb). Which means that when you added the perfective inflection to it, the "maku" changed to "make", thus "maketa(ri)".

What is more likely is that the "surrender, submission" meaning of "mairu" arose from it's use as a word indicating humility in the speaker in relation to the one being spoken to. E.g., if I speak to an equal I say, "Kita" - I came. Speaking to a superior, I say, "Maitta".

Corruption from "maketa" to "maeta" to "maitta" seems to me that it'd be some regional variation that achieved common use. I don't want to dismiss that theory out of hand, but I'll just say I've never seen such a theory in any of my references.

David Orange 03-30-2010 11:50 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Quote:

Joshua Reyer wrote: (Post 254756)
Linguistically, that seems very unlikely. The lost medial "k-" occurs preceding "-i", thus "kaku" -> "kakita" -> "kaita", but not preceding "-e"....
Corruption from "maketa" to "maeta" to "maitta" seems to me that it'd be some regional variation that achieved common use. I don't want to dismiss that theory out of hand, but I'll just say I've never seen such a theory in any of my references.

Thinkng more on it, my source was a Saito from Gifu who was uchi deshi at the yoseikan. Everyone was saying maetta! (or maita/maitta!) in practice and I had first learned it in Alabama, but it occurred to me that I didn't really know the meaning of the word and it came up as I conversed with the Gifu man.

And now as I recall, he said that the actual word was magetta, which was from maketta, pronounced magetta and shortened to ma'etta.

I would say it's Shizuoka ben but it seems to be used throughout judo and so would be likely the same word but maybe not the only form of it. I would guess it came to the yoseikan from judo, but whether Saito from Gifu was correct, I cannot guess.

Thanks.

David

David Orange 03-30-2010 07:10 PM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Quote:

David Orange wrote: (Post 254760)
...whether Saito from Gifu was correct, I cannot guess.

I finally got the word from my wife, who is from Nagano and teaches Japanese elementary students on Saturdays.

She said that makeru means to lose, but mairu means to admit that one has lost. So the correct form of the term we're discussing, according to her, is maitta.

Saito was a good guy, but he wasn't a linguist and maybe I misunderstood.

David

WilliB 04-05-2010 06:12 AM

Re: Call-out for "I yield" in Japanese
 
Quote:

David Orange wrote: (Post 254747)
I've been thinking this comes from "makeru," which is "to be beaten (in a sporting event)" or "to lose (in a sporting event)".

I understood "maeta" to be s shortened form of "maketa", meaning "I lost" (or "you won").

In fact, I think I remember one of the guys telling me that once, a long, long time ago...

Best wishes.

David

No, definitely not. "Maitta" has nothing to do with makeru; other than for tapping out on the judo mat, the verb maeru is also used for regretting a mistake or apologizing. Not the same as makeru at all.


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