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-   -   free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17279)

Chris Parkerson 12-04-2009 07:08 PM

free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Hey Folks,

The big event in Columbus, OH is coming in March. Test your skills against all comers using Tai Chi push hands competition rules at the Arnold Clsssic. It is a blast. This year there will be Tai Chi competitors from all over the country. This game is not static push hands. It is free-style. More on this later.

ashe 12-04-2009 07:57 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Quote:

Chris Parkerson wrote: (Post 247085)
Hey Folks,

The big event in Columbus, OH is coming in March. Test your skills against all comers using Tai Chi push hands competition rules at the Arnold Clsssic. It is a blast. This year there will be Tai Chi competitors from all over the country. This game is not static push hands. It is free-style. More on this later.

hey that's very cool! look forward to some video.

did a quick google search and couldn't find any other reference to it though... :(

how did you find out about it?

Chris Parkerson 12-05-2009 09:04 AM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
I competed last year. Too much fun. Shui Chou, wrestlers, judo, aikido, mma guys are all welcome to play. Test your skills by throwing the opponent to the ground or bouncing him out of the ring.
I'll post the rules this week. If you've been working on your structure and integrating it with technique, here's a real-deal chance to test what you have accomplished.

Kevin Leavitt 12-05-2009 02:38 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Cool. Can't go, but very interested in seeing the rules or observing video footage of the event so I can better understand the strategy and context of this type of event.

Mike Sigman 12-05-2009 07:54 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Quote:

Chris Parkerson wrote: (Post 247085)
This game is not static push hands. It is free-style. More on this later.

There is a comment in China about how anyone can enter low-level push-hands, Chris... but in high-level push-hands (which has never been seen in the U.S.) a low-level person will get hurt. Do you think this applies to Columbus, Ohio, or do you think that high-level internal skills will be represented?

Regards,

Mike Sigman

Thomas Campbell 12-05-2009 08:44 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote: (Post 247139)
[snip]high-level push-hands (which has never been seen in the U.S.) [snip]

Mike, I've seen what I regard as high-level push-hands here in the US (Chen Xiaowang, etc.). They were demonstrations and one-on-one; maybe you're referring to high-level push-hands competitions. That is fairly rare in China too.

Chris, thanks for the heads-up on the Columbus event. Depending on the date in March, I may be able to make it.

Mike Sigman 12-05-2009 08:52 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Quote:

Thomas Campbell wrote: (Post 247140)
maybe you're referring to high-level push-hands competitions. That is fairly rare in China too.

What did you think I was referring to? Weren't we talking about a tournament????? And it's not "fairly rare in China"... it's just not filmed for U.S. audiences, which are usually amateur.

Mike Sigman

Chris Parkerson 12-05-2009 09:14 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote: (Post 247139)
There is a comment in China about how anyone can enter low-level push-hands, Chris... but in high-level push-hands (which has never been seen in the U.S.) a low-level person will get hurt. Do you think this applies to Columbus, Ohio, or do you think that high-level internal skills will be represented?

Regards,

Mike Sigman

Hi Mike,

Shie-Ming Hwang, the tai Chi and Bachi Master who ramrods this event, has invited folks from China and Taiwan. Let's hope they are able to come. Last year, several great players came. I will post a few photos.

Chris Parkerson 12-05-2009 09:24 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Here are last year's rules. I posted them on Feb. 22, 2009. The title was Taiji Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic.

The rules may change slightly this year. I am hoping to give people an nearly head's-up so that they can train for the event if they wish to attend.

There will be three (potentially) 2 - minute rounds for each engagement. If one guy wins the first two rounds, then the third one is not held. There are 1 minute breaks between rounds.

No striking or kicking (san shou).
No pushing in the groin or face.
Any pushing, throwing, locking, seizing is fine.
Foot sweeping is not allowed
tripping/leg hooking is allowed.

Points are given for causing an opponent to fall, or go out of the three concentric boundaries. The further they go out, the more points.

The game starts with three push hand circles and then it is free-play.

This is not static push hands. It is mobile. It is aggressive, but the relaxed guy who knows grounding (earth), structure (Iron) and pliability (Water) will have the advantage.

Kind of like a sumo match at times, but if you understand structure and grounding, you can stop a bulldozer in his/her tracks and redirect the force or bounce him out out the ring.

Thomas Campbell 12-05-2009 11:10 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Chris:

Here are the rules for the 2010 event. I see restricted step (two 60-second rounds) and moving step (one 90-second round) as well as chi sau, but no "freestyle" push-hands event (at least in this version). There are also shuai jiao and sanshou (sanda) competitions (see full set of rules).

http://arnoldmartialarts.com/pdf/201.../cma_rules.pdf

CHINESE RULES
GENERAL OUTLINE OF COMPETITION RULES
[snip]Reaction skills:

Restricted-Step Push Hands - two 60 sec rounds with a 15 sec break in between rounds

Moving Push Hands - one round of 90 sec PUSHING TIME

[snip]
Shuai Chiao - three 2 min rounds with a 1 min rest period in between rounds

Chi Sau - two 90 sec rounds, with a 30 sec rest period in between rounds

San Shou - three 2 min rounds, with a 1 min rest period in between rounds
GENERAL RULES
[snip]Reaction Skills:
Reaction Skill events include Stationary Push Hands, Moving Push Hands, Shuai Chiao, Chi Sau, Weapons Sparring, & San Shou. Nearly all reaction events have listed some sort of protective gear, some mandatory, some optional. All competitors are responsible for their own protective equipment unless otherwise mentioned.
RESTRICTED-STEP PUSH HANDS
All push hands competitors must wear short-sleeved shirts. One match consists of two 60 second rounds with a 15 second break in between rounds. Opponents face each other and each places their foot on the center mark. When prepared to begin, they make contact with the back of the right or left wrist. The referee gives the command to begin at which time the competitors are required to perform a minimum of 2 revolutions before initiating any techniques. Time is suspended while the referee calls for a point and verification and announces their decision and for consultation or emergency situations. Points are awarded to the competitor whose opponent has made an error or committed a personal violation or a serious personal violation. Points may be awarded for technical violations.
Attack areas:
Attacks may be made within restricted areas of the body: from below the base of the neck to above the coccyx or bladder area. Pushing the neck, head, bladder area, hip joint, or leg is illegal.
Stepping:
Competitors may take a step or steps forward or backward, with either the front or the back foot, but may not reverse the stance, i.e., the front foot must stay forward. Competitors must keep to the orientation of the center line; they may not step to the side to defend or to gain an advantage in pushing.
Violations:
Points are awarded to the opponent of the competitor who committed the violation. However, the opponent will receive 2 pts if one commits a serious personal violation. Disqualification may be enforced for one serious violation and must be disqualified for 2 serious violations. The referee in consultation with the judges may disqualify a competitor.
Errors:
Loss of balance and endangering oneself.
Personal Violations
Serious Personal Violations
1. Using techniques excessive in strength
1. Striking, hitting, punching
2. Grabbing the opponent's clothes
2. Using the head to attack
3. Double grabbing (gripping with both hands)
3. Using the legs, knees, or feet to attack
4. Holding on to prevent loss of balance.
4. Twisting the joints (grappling or chin na)
5. Attacking an illegal target area
5. Using pressure points
6. Reversing the stance to gain advantage
6. Pulling hair or beard
7. Attacking the groin area
.
8. Using any technique determined to cause injury
Technical Violations
1. Not following instructions of the referee 9. Unsportsmanlike conduct
2. Not completing the mandatory revolutions
3. Receiving coaching during the round
Points are awarded to the opponent of the competitor who committed the violation. However, the opponent will receive 2 points if one commits a serious personal violation as listed above.
Disqualifications:
Competitors may be disqualified for one serious violation and must be disqualified for 2 serious violations. A competitor may also be disqualified by the referee in consultation with the judges.
[snip]CHI SAU
The Chi Sau matches will consist of three rounds, the first two being 45 seconds and the third being 60 seconds (intermediate division) or 120 seconds (advanced division); with a 30 second rest period in between rounds. No long-sleeved shirts or short pants will be permitted. Competitors will not be allowed to wear any objects (including jewelry) that may cause injury to themselves or to their opponents. Fingernails must be clipped as short as possible, and will be inspected by the officials. A mouthpiece and groin protector will be required. Head gear is mandatory in the third round for advanced divisions; hand and foot gear will not be required. The competition area will be a square space measuring 9' x 9', enclosed and divided into two halves by tape.
Match Rules:
Judges will be looking for a continuous exchange of discernible techniques, with an emphasis on adherence or "sticking". This is to be distinguished from wrestling, shoving, and boxing. In the first two rounds, techniques must be directed to the chest region with at least one hand in contact with the opponent's arm. In the third round, techniques are allowed to be aimed at the head with (intermediate) no contact or (advanced) light-contact. Competitors should display good "bridging" skills. Points are awarded for proper, legal technical contact. Points will be deducted from a competitor that makes an error or commits a personal violation.
[snip]

Chris Parkerson 12-06-2009 05:31 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Thomas,

The rules may have changed since that post.
I will be hooking up with Dr. Hwang tonight around 8:00 PM. I will confirm what this year's rules look like. Perhpas he can give me a finalized and current copy. I will also get an exact date for the clinic (orientation) , demonstration and competitions.

Thomas Campbell 12-06-2009 07:22 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Thanks Chris. I appreciate you bringing the event to our attention. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise.

Chris Parkerson 12-08-2009 12:28 PM

Re: free-style Push Hands Competition at the Arnold Classic
 
Quote:

Thomas Campbell wrote: (Post 247188)
Thanks Chris. I appreciate you bringing the event to our attention. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise.

I talked with Dr. Hwang last Sunday Night. he said the rules are essentially the same as I posted earlier. He was unaware of this other posting on The Arnold's website. That posting was from several years earlier and was from a different organization.

Some representatives from Chen Village will be in San Diego in January. We might head over there for the competition events. I may or may not go as I am recouping from an injury.

The same Chen Village folks have been invited, I understand, to the Arnold.


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