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-   -   Fight? What fight? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16563)

Janet Rosen 08-02-2009 10:38 PM

Fight? What fight?
 
This Sunday's NYT "Modern Love" column describes one of the finest examples I've ever read of living aikido off the mat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fa...pagewanted=all

Mark Mueller 08-03-2009 12:32 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Janet, Thanks for posting that. Beautiful example.

gdandscompserv 08-03-2009 01:27 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
I have a wife like that!:)

Shadowfax 08-03-2009 06:55 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Wow..... I'm glade you shared this. What an amazing example she sets.

Kevin Leavitt 08-03-2009 07:27 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Thanks Janet...that is very moving. They should make a movie out of that story.

Ron Tisdale 08-03-2009 10:14 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
WOW.

Best,
Ron

ninjaqutie 08-03-2009 10:16 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Wow. That is a great story. Not too many women could do something like that. I don't know if I could....

RED 08-03-2009 12:11 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
That takes reserve I hope I can have some day.

Susan Dalton 08-04-2009 06:55 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
The most amazing part is how she kept from blaming "uke". Wow.
Susan

Maarten De Queecker 08-11-2009 06:33 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Beautiful story. It kind of moved me...

MM 08-11-2009 06:45 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 236349)
This Sunday's NYT "Modern Love" column describes one of the finest examples I've ever read of living aikido off the mat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fa...pagewanted=all

Hello,

Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, would you (my grammar teacher always hated "could". Of course you are capable) explain how this story is aikido off the mat for me? Truthfully, I'm just not seeing it. I was hoping that if I gave you the chance, the open mic, maybe you'd explain how it is aikido off the mat. My promise is that I'll not debate it with you. I'll most likely ask questions to clarify what you say, but no debates on validity. No interjections on my views of aikido.

If you don't care to discuss it, that's fine.

Thanks,
Mark

rob_liberti 08-11-2009 08:45 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
I just read something that resonated with me about this topic in a different thread:

Quote:

Drew Gardner wrote: (Post 237362)
Survival in today's jungle:

Self-absorption: no empathy or love, could lead one to the delusion that he is the only person with free will and emotion.

Altruism: pure empathy and love, dangerous mind state leads to manipulation from self-absorbed others. Feelings of weakness, learned helplessness, and a total external locus of control.

Invulnerable Altruism: The result of proper, consistent Aiki-geiko. A moderate, chronic euphoria that words cannot further describe.

I like this idea of "Invulnerable Altruism". I look at it as being unassailable. I'm working on that because I suspect it will help me also become much more unassailing!

You can debate with me to your hearts content. I would also like to read the OP's perspective.

Rob

Abasan 08-11-2009 09:16 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 237379)
Hello,

Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, would you (my grammar teacher always hated "could". Of course you are capable) explain how this story is aikido off the mat for me? Truthfully, I'm just not seeing it. I was hoping that if I gave you the chance, the open mic, maybe you'd explain how it is aikido off the mat. My promise is that I'll not debate it with you. I'll most likely ask questions to clarify what you say, but no debates on validity. No interjections on my views of aikido.

If you don't care to discuss it, that's fine.

Thanks,
Mark

I thought it was picture perfect. She kept her calm and centered. She didn't clash but blended. She led but did not push. She did not cower nor did she fight back, but she accepted. And finally, both of them won. Neither lost. Balance restored, harmony prevailed.

Janet Rosen 08-11-2009 09:38 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 237379)
Hello,
Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, would you (my grammar teacher always hated "could". Of course you are capable) explain how this story is aikido off the mat for me?

As the OP: she stayed centered, dealt with the global reality in front of her without necessarily buying into her partner's version of it, continued to blend and lead however long it took until harmony was restored.

L. Camejo 08-11-2009 09:54 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Nice story with a happy ending.

Shows a lot about resolve. Her resolve was to hold the family together and it won out. Of course if the husband was actually serious about leaving and had the resolve to do so he would have just left and not look back - saying he was about to leave was merely a means of asking her to help him find the means to stay. He may have never been serious about actually acting on what he said from the beginning.

Imho perpetual blending does not always resolve conflict. It often only prolongs the inevitable. This case was different.

LC

Janet Rosen 08-11-2009 10:20 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Quote:

Larry Camejo wrote: (Post 237495)
Imho perpetual blending does not always resolve conflict. It often only prolongs the inevitable. This case was different.

I totally agree.
In this case there are a couple of things that struck me though:
One is that she did from the start tell him "I don't buy it." She didn't do a pat "yes dear I hear you" blend. She actually stated her reaction to his attack - and she continued to reframe things. You'll note this very much took his balance - lots of "huh?"s and angry "oh you mean this...", which she continues to reframe - like from the start she had a gut feeling that it wasn't about what he said it was about so if she reframed it, it might work.
The reframing is sort of a continual kuzushi more than a continual blend, I guess, now that I think of it!

Kevin Leavitt 08-11-2009 10:38 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
I think it has alot to do with the concept of entering as well. She entered by standing her ground and by her convictions, yet allowed him to move where he naturally wanted to go without letting go of him or pushing him away. By doing this, I think she was able to maintain her self control, not feel like a push over, yet he resolved his own problem...or something like that.

It is hard to describe in detail, but I do believe it is a fantastic story that illustrates the concept. She held on by letting go, but not by pushing away. Very skillful way of handling the issue!

Giving uke the space he needs while protecting ourselves.

gdandscompserv 08-11-2009 10:43 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 237379)
Hello,

Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, would you (my grammar teacher always hated "could". Of course you are capable) explain how this story is aikido off the mat for me? Truthfully, I'm just not seeing it. I was hoping that if I gave you the chance, the open mic, maybe you'd explain how it is aikido off the mat. My promise is that I'll not debate it with you. I'll most likely ask questions to clarify what you say, but no debates on validity. No interjections on my views of aikido.

If you don't care to discuss it, that's fine.

Thanks,
Mark

Or alternatively, perhaps you could explain how it is NOT aikido.:p

MM 08-12-2009 06:38 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Quote:

Ricky Wood wrote: (Post 237501)
Or alternatively, perhaps you could explain how it is NOT aikido.:p

No. That would be debating. I said I wouldn't do that. I won't.

fisher6000 08-15-2009 02:44 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
I think it's OK to debate in a forum. Isn't that what forums are for?

I thought it was an excellent example of kuzushi. And also, a sensei I had in the past said all the time that it was important to be "sticky," or not be in such a hurry to resolve an attack.

On the mat and in life, I tend to rush. I rush to understand a workplace conflict, rush to apologize, rush to find a technique in randori... and I do this so that I can end the ambiguity.

It takes a lot of courage to let the ambiguity play itself out when it's appropriate to do so.

MM 08-15-2009 06:08 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Quote:

Deborah Fisher wrote: (Post 237711)
I think it's OK to debate in a forum. Isn't that what forums are for?

Sure, I think it's okay to debate in a forum, too. I've done so here on Aikiweb. But, I wanted Janet's view without my interfering, or debating, so that not only could she explain her view, but I could focus on understanding her view. Beyond that, I said I wouldn't debate. I stand by what I say. :)

David Orange 08-17-2009 02:05 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Quote:

Ricky Wood wrote: (Post 236356)
I have a wife like that!:)

Is that why you're in Okinawa now???

Hope she's with you.

David

Commander13CnC3 09-29-2011 07:42 AM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
Fantastic Aikido "off the mat" reference!
Interesting story, too.

genin 09-29-2011 03:25 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
At first it sounds like she was letting him walk all over her, or that she was desperate to keep him. But in actuality, she recognized a conflict, and she took the perceived best course of action so that she could acheive victory. Victory, in this case, was not allowing her husband to leave her family, and to a lesser extent, allowing him to draw her into an ongoing argument over divorce.

At the most basic level, you can ask yourself what your enemy (uke/husband) wants you to do, and then simply don't do that thing. The husband wanted her to fly off the deep end and give him a reason to leave. While I'm sure she felt the urge to flip out, and she would've been right in doing so, she instead chose to defeat her enemy with a more effective tactic.

Gorgeous George 10-04-2011 03:15 PM

Re: Fight? What fight?
 
I don't think it's quite that simple: the children were forced, by her actions, to live in an erratic, discord-riven environment, because she chose to bring about that situation...


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