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-   -   Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16496)

dps 07-20-2009 05:00 AM

Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Is it just the people who practice Aikikai Aikido who feel that something is missing in their practice ( internal strength, connection, intent, etc) or do the people who practice Yoseikan Aikido, Yoshinkan Aikido, Shodokan Aikido and Korindo Aikido feel that there is something missing also?

David

lbb 07-20-2009 06:42 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
I'd guess it has less to do with style and more to do with whether you're predisposed to see the donut or the hole (or perhaps whether you expect anything, whether it be aikido or religion or romance or politics, to be all things for you).

Ron Tisdale 07-20-2009 08:23 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
When participating in events focused on "internal training", I have seen adherents from many different organizations, including some of the ones you mentioned above, as well as independent organizations.

I don't remember hearing too many claim that the depth of experience in that area was something they felt familiar with (using the instructors at those events as a comparative example).

Personally, I'm trying to avoid speaking of this "skill set" in terms of organizations. Organizations don't practice this skill set. Individuals do.

Best,
Ron

Shadowfax 07-20-2009 08:52 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
I practice Aikiki and I have yet to notice anything missing. Certainly in need of development and work but not missing altogether.

A good friend of mine practices Yoshinkan and I have to tell ya that guy isn't missing a thing as far as I can tell.

DH 07-20-2009 10:42 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Not making any sort of judgment here, but just hoping to add a certain level of honest assessment.
Who can tell what is missing if they haven't felt what is missing?

I had a twenty year student of one of the top men in the internal Chinese arts come and train here. He made an interesting comment that the people who train here have never forgotten
"I didn't know, that I didn't know."
While the comment is clear enough at face value, the reason many of the teachers from different arts took it to heart, is that it expressed their own broader experiences and thoughts in one succinct line.
So, while I can read various comments from people, I assign a relative weight to them being that I have met so many senior men in the arts who would completely disagree with them about just what is missing from where.
If that is true- then how does one assess accurately whether or not something is missing?
All you may really get for replies here is the equivalent of:
1. Are you happy with your training?
To which you may get a "Yes!"
2. Do you feel something is missing?
To which you might get "Yes" or "No" or "I dunno, but my teacher will tell me when I am ready to receive more."
And so it goes.
I keep suggesting people get out and check it out for themselves. I have faith in people that once felt they will make the best choice for themsevles.
Cheers
Dan
P.S. Oh...my ICMA friend? He quit the world famous Chinese teacher and went and found someone less famous- who could and would, actually teach internal power within the movements!

Scott Stahurski 07-20-2009 11:03 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
I used to know what It was, until they changed It, now It seems weird and scary.....and it will happen to you.

thisisnotreal 07-20-2009 11:06 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Hi Scott,
What are you talking about?

dps 07-20-2009 11:11 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 235031)
Is it just the people who practice Aikikai Aikido who feel that something is missing in their practice ( internal strength, connection, intent, etc) or do the people who practice Yoseikan Aikido, Yoshinkan Aikido, Shodokan Aikido and Korindo Aikido feel that there is something missing also?

David

I should have mentioned Ki Aikido, my apologies.

I was trying to separate the different versions of Aikido based on when the individuals who went their own way from O'Sensei's Aikido before the his son was in charged of the Aikikai. Although Tohei didn't break off until after the second doshu was in charged.

Erick Mead 07-20-2009 11:12 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 235031)
Is it just the people who practice Aikikai Aikido who feel that something is missing in their practice ( internal strength, connection, intent, etc) or do the people who practice Yoseikan Aikido, Yoshinkan Aikido, Shodokan Aikido and Korindo Aikido feel that there is something missing also?

This is like wife-beating questions. The premise presumes the conclusion. The presumption does address something, but not the thing it presumes.

There is good and bad everywhere, in everything to be seen and to be learned from in both good and bad examples. If observant, and diligent, and with honesty and decent respect -- learning becomes self-directed, rather than merely dependent. For those who remain primarily dependent on anything or anyone else, well, ...

"Men at some time are masters of their fates: The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings". Julius Caesar, Act I, Scene II.

Scott Stahurski 07-20-2009 11:13 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
I'm talking about It.... :b

BTW that was a Simpsons quote....just struck me funny how the title was "Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?"

Man serious internets on this forum.

mickeygelum 07-20-2009 11:14 AM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

I keep suggesting people get out and check it out for themselves. I have faith in people that once felt they will make the best choice for themsevles.

Dan Harden

Absolutely a true statement.

Train well,

Mickey

crbateman 07-20-2009 12:08 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
If one thinks there are aspects lacking in his training, he needs only to explore them further. What is there to prevent it? What each of us wants may vary from the others. Stock your own cupboard.

SeiserL 07-20-2009 12:35 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Missing?
Can't say its there yet.
But, I am working in that direction.

Eric Joyce 07-20-2009 12:43 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 235067)
P.S. Oh...my ICMA friend? He quit the world famous Chinese teacher and went and found someone less famous- who could and would, actually teach internal power within the movements!

If you don't mind me asking, who did they go to?

Basia Halliop 07-20-2009 12:53 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Do you get the impression from people you come across in practice that there are a lot of people in the Aikikai who feel that way? Or are you more going by discussion on the internet? Because I have really never personally got that impression.

DH 07-20-2009 12:54 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

If you don't mind me asking, who did they go to?
Eric Joyce
Hello Eric
I'll let the story stand on its own. I just used it to make the point. There's no point in embarrasing anybody by using names.
Cheers
Dan

mathewjgano 07-20-2009 02:05 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 235031)
Is it just the people who practice Aikikai Aikido who feel that something is missing in their practice ( internal strength, connection, intent, etc) or do the people who practice Yoseikan Aikido, Yoshinkan Aikido, Shodokan Aikido and Korindo Aikido feel that there is something missing also?

David

First, I'm going to take the "gimme" and answer the title and say, no, because I'm willing to bet at least one person's Aikido has It. I'm assuming It is a high degree of ability in using the largely non-muscular center-based internal power structure.
I'm not sure of how important that ability is to everyone, but I doubt most practicioners are willing to spend the amount of time developing it (and maintaining it?) as it seems to require. So, where that is the case, I think you will see differenetiation in the final product, the "Aikido." My sense is that this is natural to any system of learning: different people focus on different aspects and thus develop a specialty. It seems very hard to be an expert in all facets...or at least, to take up more time than most people are willing to afford. Personally, when my training has been regular, I don't feel anything missing: I get a lot better at "handling" my friends, I get in great shape, and I feel mentally sharper; these are all things I seek in my training. But like Dan said, unless you've directly experienced something, it can be hard to say whether you'd know if it wasn't there to be missed...or desired in the first place.
Of course, the nice thing about the information age is that we can travel and communicate easier than ever before so where someone has hold on something particularly sought after, we can find it and learn from it.
Here's my somewhat loaded question though: how important is It?

thisisnotreal 07-20-2009 02:44 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
del

Ron Tisdale 07-20-2009 03:06 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

Here's my somewhat loaded question though: how important is It?
I think the answer to that is based on the answer to another question. Do you believe that this is the base skill in aikido and other asian martial arts? If you think this is a base skill, a requirement, then it becomes VERY important. If you don't think that, then not so much.

Best,
Ron (each person will have their own reasons for their answer. I think it is VERY important...)

gdandscompserv 07-20-2009 03:25 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
I think we need more possessor's of It, willing to share It.:cool:

mathewjgano 07-20-2009 04:33 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote: (Post 235104)
I think the answer to that is based on the answer to another question. Do you believe that this is the base skill in aikido and other asian martial arts? If you think this is a base skill, a requirement, then it becomes VERY important. If you don't think that, then not so much.

Best,
Ron (each person will have their own reasons for their answer. I think it is VERY important...)

I agree. And speaking personally, yes, it's definately the kind of thing I'm looking to learn from my lessons in aikido so it's important to me as well. In the sense that muscle strength ideally shouldn't be the central force of the power, I'd have to guess that it is fundemental to the physical waza.
I guess my next question is: is it "missing" or often simply under-developed? It seems Tohei Sensei felt these things (or what he knew of them) should be focused on more explicitly. I don't know why of course, but to me it suggests he might have felt they were under-developed.
If they're present to some degree, but poorly understood, how much is enough? If I'm studying as a hobby or simply with the idea that something is better than nothing, what constitutes "enough?" Because it sounds like a lot of folks are essentially dismissing what a lot of other folks are doing...I could be reading too much into things though...and probably am :)

eyrie 07-20-2009 04:54 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
This applies equally to ANY body of knowledge:
How do you know what's missing, if you don't know what IT is that you're looking for?

RED 07-20-2009 05:16 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Everything that's missing is centered around my lacking or inability to completely perceive at this point in my practice. It's a life long endeavor I think.

dps 07-20-2009 05:18 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

Basia Halliop wrote: (Post 235086)
Do you get the impression from people you come across in practice that there are a lot of people in the Aikikai who feel that way? Or are you more going by discussion on the internet? Because I have really never personally got that impression.

Discussion on the internet. I am recovering from physical problems and am not currently practicing.

David

lbb 07-20-2009 05:22 PM

Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?
 
Quote:

Ignatius Teo wrote: (Post 235113)
This applies equally to ANY body of knowledge:
How do you know what's missing, if you don't know what IT is that you're looking for?

You may not be looking at all. You may be okay with where you are.


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