AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   Language (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   pronunciation... kokyuho (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16484)

dalen7 07-19-2009 12:36 PM

pronunciation... kokyuho
 
I have a question about proper pronunciation of...

Kokyuho

Which is correct:
Koh - koo - ho
koh - key - ho
koh - key - oo - ho
koh - key - you - ho

With Kokyu Nage it seems straight forward:
Koh - Key - you - nage

But with Kokyuho I can never quite tell what is being said... it doesnt seem as distinct as the latter.

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
It actually blends in with Gokyo depending on who says it.
I had it once where I swore sensei was saying Ko-ky-ho and I asked to make sure and it was Gokyo.
[fact is my hearing isnt the best so that has a part to play with it, but it is most embarrassing to get stuck on a technique thinking it is one thing when its another.] ;)

Janet Rosen 07-19-2009 01:18 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Quote:

Dalen Johnson wrote: (Post 234971)
With Kokyu Nage it seems straight forward:
Koh - Key - you - nage

Interesting. Every dojo I''ve trained at/visited in the US and Canada says Koh-kyoo-nage.

akiy 07-19-2009 01:32 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Here is an audio pronunciation guide that I made a little while ago:

http://www.aikiweb.com/language/audio.html

Hope it helps,

-- Jun

dalen7 07-19-2009 02:14 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Thank you Janet and Jun!

So it seems I had it all wrong, its koh-kyoo indeed... ah, the joys of a different tongue... thanks for the help! :)

Peace,

dAlen

p.s.
gonna bookmark that page Jun... again, thanks. :)

Janet Rosen 07-19-2009 07:35 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
:-)

dalen7 07-20-2009 08:40 AM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
... but what this also means is that calling the ranks "key - you" is totally incorrect.

It should sound like '1st q, 2nd q,', etc.
...oh well, learn something everyday. :)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.

Suppose "key-you" is for those with a southern accent. [though not limited to the states obviously] ;)

Mark Uttech 07-21-2009 05:24 AM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Onegaishimasu. Kokyuho is pronounced:

"coke-you-ho"

That was a simple pronunciation, easy to remember.

In gassho,

Mark

Michael Varin 07-21-2009 06:28 AM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Quote:

Mark Uttech wrote:
"coke-you-ho"

That was a simple pronunciation, easy to remember.

Simple, but wrong.

The syllables are misrepresented.

Kokyu: koh-cue

Kokyu ho: koh-cue-ho

To be completely accurate, the "u" sound in Japanese is made without rounding the lips. Of course, my Japanese is terrible, but most Americans won't know the difference!

Josh Reyer 07-21-2009 06:48 AM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 235154)
Simple, but wrong.

The syllables are misrepresented.

Kokyu: koh-cue

Kokyu ho: koh-cue-ho

To be completely accurate, the "u" sound in Japanese is made without rounding the lips. Of course, my Japanese is terrible, but most Americans won't know the difference!

To be even more accurate, the "ko" is a short, clipped sound, not as long in duration as the usual English "oh". Meanwhile, the "ho" is a longer sound, roughly two beats' worth of the first "ko". So the "ko" is a little shorter than normal English "oh", and the "ho" a little longer than the normal English "oh". The "u" of "kyu", incidentally, is also two beats long. Just a smidgen longer than, say, the letter "Q".

dalen7 07-21-2009 12:11 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
So its not just me having issues... :)

Thanks for the follow up post and detailed explanation Josh.
[not sure I will ever get that good at it, but if I can get the syllables in the right place it will be a start!] ;)

Peace

dAlen

Suru 07-21-2009 12:33 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
That's really helpful, Jun. I year into training I called O'Sensei, Yoo-shee-bah to one of my sensei. He corrected me gently, without any mocking. Still, I was embarrassed. Your great efforts on that section will assist many.

Drew

dalen7 07-21-2009 01:06 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Quote:

Drew Gardner wrote: (Post 235206)
That's really helpful, Jun. I year into training I called O'Sensei, Yoo-shee-bah to one of my sensei. He corrected me gently, without any mocking. Still, I was embarrassed. Your great efforts on that section will assist many.

Drew

k... as for embarrassment I will lay it on the line.
At my test I was so focused on what the visiting/testing Sensei wanted from me on 3 techniques which varied from what I was shown, that I messed up Gokkyo.

I swore I heard him say, "koh key ho", I said, "koh key ho?" - and he nodded yes, and this went on 3 times.
The problem was he said, what I thought, was shomenuchi kokyuho, and I know there is not a technique like that in any of my exams - at least 6th - 3rd kyu.

Then he did a gesture in the air and I was, "ah, Gokkyo!" I was so freakn embarrassed it was crazy!

Then I find out its koh - q - ho [or there abouts!] lol

Anyway, I know the techniques, just not used to hearing them called out. [As mentioned, not much dojo practice on higher level techniques, and the other stuff I do at home from memory, thus I "hear" what I think they are supposed to sound like!" :)

This is all good, as Aikiweb has truly been a great source in helping me along in my journey in Aikido! ;)

Peace

dAlen

Michael Varin 07-21-2009 10:48 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Quote:

Josh Reyer wrote:
To be even more accurate. . .

Yeah. Completely was a poor word choice. Thanks for your contribution.

I found something that may be helpful for those who haven't heard these terms pronounced correctly.

You can listen to the pronunciation by clicking the following links.

呼 (ko)

吸 (kyuu)

方 (hou)

Josh Reyer 07-21-2009 11:51 PM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 235253)
Yeah. Completely was a poor word choice. Thanks for your contribution.

I found something that may be helpful for those who haven't heard these terms pronounced correctly.

You can listen to the pronunciation by clicking the following links.

Michael, please don't think I'm picking on you. But...

Those sound files are all for short sounds, so while the "ko" is good, the "kyu" and "ho" are too short. Not to mention that the three sounds in isolation there do not provide the proper pitch accent of the whole word.

Speaking of pitch accent, kokyu has a high pitch accent on the first syllable and low accent on the rest. Likewise, ho(u) starts high and then drops.

ko......ho
...kyuu...o

Finally, kokyu-ho is written 呼吸法, rather than 呼吸方.

dalen7 07-22-2009 12:30 AM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Quote:

Joshua Reyer wrote: (Post 235255)
呼吸法, rather than 呼吸方.

... exactly! ;)

- dAlen

Michael Varin 07-22-2009 06:09 AM

Re: pronunciation... kokyuho
 
Quote:

Josh Reyer wrote:
Michael, please don't think I'm picking on you. But...

Well, I wouldn't have thought anything if you didn't bring it up! ;)

You are definitely correct about that kanji for 'ho.' I tend to get those confused.

Actually, while we are on the subject, is the kanji that I used "a way" in the sense of a direction, and the correct kanji "a way" as in the manner in which something is done? I don't think I've ever had those accurately translated for me.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:07 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.