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pilgrim3970 06-19-2009 03:14 PM

Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Hello all,

Looking at purchasing Robert Koga's Practical AIkido DVDs and I was wanting to know if any of you have these and what your opinion of them are. Do these give you a pretty good idea about the underlying principles of his Aikido. Is it mostly demonstration or does he talk about why he made changes he did to given techniques.

Thanks!

Steven

Michael Hackett 06-19-2009 04:49 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Koga Sensei took Aikido training and made it into something that would work for law enforcement agents who usually don't train. It is very effective technique, but it isn't pretty. He also covers baton techniques and handcuffing in his training. If you want "down and dirty" defensive tactics with a strong Aikido flavor, you won't go wrong. He is the real deal and is very candid about not teaching "classical Aikido". He is the real deal in defensive tactics work.

aikishrine 06-19-2009 08:36 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Not a very good source for Aikido at all. It would be more beneficial for you to buy some Japanese Jujutsu dvds, or some chin na dvds.

He started in Judo and i believe that his base in that is more predominate than Aikido. I dont know for certain but i believe that he didnt even reach shodan level in Aikido.

Now all that being said i have owned these dvds. And maybe they are ok for law enforcement, but i would find another source for learning to be quite honest. No offense, this is just my opinion.

Sincerely, Brian

Dan Rubin 06-20-2009 04:21 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Steven

Here's another thread about Bob Koga that may help you:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15274

George S. Ledyard 06-20-2009 07:23 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Quote:

Steven Bittle wrote: (Post 233083)
Hello all,

Looking at purchasing Robert Koga's Practical AIkido DVDs and I was wanting to know if any of you have these and what your opinion of them are. Do these give you a pretty good idea about the underlying principles of his Aikido. Is it mostly demonstration or does he talk about why he made changes he did to given techniques.

Thanks!

Steven

Koga Sensei was the first person to teach Aikido based Defensive tactics in the US. He is the grand-daddy of "applied Aikido". This guy did his stuff on the street and taught others to do so.

I have the videos and his written manual. It's great stuff but suffers from the same problem that my own system does... no one in law enforcement is going to train enough to get past chapter one.

Koga's stuff is too complex for official use in any agency that I know of because they simply will not devote the hours needed to master such a system.

If you are interested in the side of Aikido that deals with applying technique against folks who know nothing about Aikido, these are fine videos. You can also check out David Dye's videos as well, he was a Costa Mesa cop who took his Yoshinkai Aikido and made his own DT system.

This material is excellent, it just depends on what you want it for...

George S. Ledyard 06-20-2009 07:29 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Quote:

Brian Northrup wrote: (Post 233100)
Not a very good source for Aikido at all. It would be more beneficial for you to buy some Japanese Jujutsu dvds, or some chin na dvds.

He started in Judo and i believe that his base in that is more predominate than Aikido. I dont know for certain but i believe that he didnt even reach shodan level in Aikido.

Now all that being said i have owned these dvds. And maybe they are ok for law enforcement, but i would find another source for learning to be quite honest. No offense, this is just my opinion.

Sincerely, Brian

Brian,
Virtually all of the original Aikido folks started in Judo, here and in Japan. Shodan in those days is not what Shodan is now, they REALLY trained. And back in the early sixties there simply weren't many folks with higher rank. Anyway, this guy has street experience with his Aikido that would make most 6th Dans look silly. This guy is a real historical personage in American Aikido and deserves some serious respect. He may not be a Tanemura but he is the real meal deal.

aikishrine 06-20-2009 09:53 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Quote:

George S. Ledyard wrote: (Post 233144)
Brian,
Virtually all of the original Aikido folks started in Judo, here and in Japan. Shodan in those days is not what Shodan is now, they REALLY trained. And back in the early sixties there simply weren't many folks with higher rank. Anyway, this guy has street experience with his Aikido that would make most 6th Dans look silly. This guy is a real historical personage in American Aikido and deserves some serious respect. He may not be a Tanemura but he is the real meal deal.

I dont mean any disrespect to the man but i have serious doubts about his "practical aikido" i have owned and watched his videos, and was very unimpressed. As i stated above chin na would be more applicable to police work. As it would be easier to learn in a shorter amount of time, with a whole lot of more locks and such. Chin na encompasses alot of muscle grabs and pressure point manipulations as well which would be highly effective in police work.

aikishrine 06-21-2009 09:26 AM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Quote:

Brian Northrup wrote: (Post 233152)
I dont mean any disrespect to the man but i have serious doubts about his "practical aikido" i have owned and watched his videos, and was very unimpressed. As i stated above chin na would be more applicable to police work. As it would be easier to learn in a shorter amount of time, with a whole lot of more locks and such. Chin na encompasses alot of muscle grabs and pressure point manipulations as well which would be highly effective in police work.

After further thought i have decided that i am not the right person to speak on this as i havent achieved anything in my life what so ever let alone Aikido. So please disregard my comments.

Kenan 05-10-2010 10:06 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Quote:

Steven Bittle wrote: (Post 233083)
Hello all,

Looking at purchasing Robert Koga's Practical AIkido DVDs and I was wanting to know if any of you have these and what your opinion of them are. Do these give you a pretty good idea about the underlying principles of his Aikido. Is it mostly demonstration or does he talk about why he made changes he did to given techniques.

Thanks!

Steven

Hi Steven.....Its been awhile since you posted this so I dont know if you got the video or not.
I recently graduated from a police academy that trains its cadets in the use of Koga's Arrest control. It is awesome and VERY effective.

In response to some of the posters that said they didnt know any agencies that used it because its to time consuming. More and more agencies are starting to see that quality training is in the long run better than cheap. The Koga System has never had a successful law suit against it when the issue of police brutality has been raised.

I know for certain that Aurora colorado uses it. The SWAT team there swears by it. Several others currently use it not positive on who other than Baltimore.
LA use Koga when Robert Koga was there used it and for a while after So did Denver. But it is expensive so alot of agencies dont want to pay for it.
So they opt for PPCT or The FBI method. Having seen all of those used Koga is by far the most effective.

Let me give an example in the difference in training. The typical PPCT training program is 40hrs long. The basic Koga training program is 150hrs. I think you can see how big a difference that is =)
I highly Recommend that if you can. Go to one of Robert Koga's workshops. I dont know if the video will give you much unless you have someone to practice with. That being said we all know that learning something from a video isnt nearly as good as having first hand instruction..

Good luck in your pursuits.
Kenan

Steve15131 09-16-2012 07:36 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
Robert Koga is a black belt in Aikido. He was given his rank personally by Master Koichi Tohei. When Master Tohei was teaching in the USA, Koga traveled with him. Koga received private training from Master Tohei.

Koga's method of Aikido is gear more for real street situations. He used many Aikido techniques in his Arrest Control Techniques use by law enforcement. I trained with Koga for over 10 years and used his techniques hundreds of time during my 40 year law enforcement work.

If you want to learn traditional Aikido go to a Aikido Dojo.

I was also fortunate to have been able to personally train with Master Koichi Tohei. He was the best Aikido instructor that I had to fortunate to train under.

Michael Hackett 09-16-2012 10:08 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
The "Koga Method" is still being taught in all of the California police academies, but not under that name. Many of his techniques came from aikido and those have been adopted and essentially renamed today. For example, what most aikidoka know as ikkyo into a pin was made easier and stronger by Koga Sensei and subsequently is still being taught as a single arm takedown. His actual program is considerably longer and far better than what the average police agent is taught - and considerably more expensive. As a result, many, if not most agencies choose to pass on providing actual Koga training for the lesser training required by POST for defensive tactics work. California cops today, whose fathers weren't even born when Bob Koga was an LAPD sergeant, owe him a great debt and don't even know it.

Koga Sensei's stuff has a purpose - that of equipping street cops with an effective means of controlling violent suspects. It probably won't do you much good when performing aikikai testing, and probably isn't the best game in town for personal self-defense, but it is a great toolbox for the intended purpose. And as Ledyard Sensei said in effect, it is worthless unless you train and practice. That holds true for ballroom dancing, high diving and open heart surgery too, I suspect.

Michael Hackett 09-16-2012 10:14 PM

Re: Practical Aikido DVD - Robert Koga
 
As a follow-up, I previously mentioned how expensive Koga courses are. The courses themselves are very reasonably priced. What is expensive is the wage and benefit package for the cop taking the four weeks of training, the costs associated with his lodging, travel and board if he has to be away from home, and the costs associated with his replacement, usually at time and a half. Those costs add up quickly and are beyond the financial reach of most agencies.

What is shameful in many ways, is that some agencies have coughed up the funds to train some officers as certified Koga instructors and then have failed to either recertify the instructors or failed to provide the training to their officers on a consistent basis.


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