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-   -   Tsuyoku naritai (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16344)

Karo 06-14-2009 06:38 PM

Tsuyoku naritai
 
I've read that the saying "Tsuyoku naritai" ("I want to become stronger") is used in the context of sports competitions, where it expresses the drive to improve (not necessary only in strength, but speed, skill, etc.).

A Japanese friend of mine said it's not appropriate in the context of aikido, because aikido isn't competitive. But I wonder, couldn't it still be used to describe the will to overcome your own weaknesses, to express the drive to constantly become better than yourself?

I'd be grateful if our wise and experienced Japanese speakers offered their insight. (And an actual rendering of the words in Japanese would be welcome, too, as I'm having a hard time Googling it, what with cross-linguistic difficulties and all.)

Karo

nekobaka 06-14-2009 07:32 PM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
If you are talking about aikido, I would go with "getting better"
jyozu ni naritai
or
umaku naritai

or if you want to discover the mysteries of the universe and become enlightened
satori o hirakitai

Mathias 06-15-2009 02:54 AM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
I think that tsuyoiku naritai fits when talking about wanting to become better at aikido.

I remember talking to sensei about this a couple of years ago.
If you think that someone has a strong aikido in a positive sense, you use the word tsuyoi. But if you think that someone has a strong (hard) aikido in a negative sense you can use the word katai.

If you want to complement on someone's aikido as being soft in a good way yawarakai is a good word. If you on the other hand want to describe it as soft (powerless) in a negative way the word yowai is the word to use.

/Mathias

Karo 06-16-2009 07:25 PM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
Thanks for suggestions, Ani and Mathias; however, I'm still stuck, having one vote for and one vote against "tsuyoku naritai" as applicable to aikido :D

Karo

gdandscompserv 06-16-2009 07:29 PM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
Quote:

Karolina Owczarzak wrote: (Post 232821)
Thanks for suggestions, Ani and Mathias; however, I'm still stuck, having one vote for and one vote against "tsuyoku naritai" as applicable to aikido :D

Karo

Ask Veltri Sensei. He's very fluent in Japanese as I recall.:D

nekobaka 06-16-2009 09:51 PM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
I'd say our disagreement is semantics. I wouldn't say tsuyoi, but I see aikido in terms of skill, thus better or worse. My dojo member would never say sono hito ha tsuyoi ne. they would say umai na. or sugoi. that's just my dojo, not everyone sees it that way.by the way, the people who are tsuyoi at my dojo are rarely umai, because they can't relax and they use their strength instead of the technique.

Mathias 06-17-2009 01:38 AM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
Quote:

Ani Forbes wrote: (Post 232832)
I'd say our disagreement is semantics. I wouldn't say tsuyoi, but I see aikido in terms of skill, thus better or worse. My dojo member would never say sono hito ha tsuyoi ne. they would say umai na. or sugoi. that's just my dojo, not everyone sees it that way.by the way, the people who are tsuyoi at my dojo are rarely umai, because they can't relax and they use their strength instead of the technique.

Of course it is abour semantics. Different people bring in different experiences in to the translation. I bet that if you asked ten native japanese speakers you would get a lot of different answers to your question.
For me, and the people in my dojo, tsuyoi does not imply that you are stiff or use a lot of muscle in your waza. Katai on the other hand does.

If i were to say that someones aikido was good, i would probably use umai or joozu. Sugoi for me has a very different meaning.

oisin bourke 06-17-2009 07:15 AM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
Quote:

Mathias Lindqvist wrote: (Post 232836)
Of course it is abour semantics. Different people bring in different experiences in to the translation. I bet that if you asked ten native japanese speakers you would get a lot of different answers to your question.
For me, and the people in my dojo, tsuyoi does not imply that you are stiff or use a lot of muscle in your waza. Katai on the other hand does.

If i were to say that someones aikido was good, i would probably use umai or joozu. Sugoi for me has a very different meaning.

I don't think it is semantics.

If I tell one of my fellow club members or seniors "Waza ga Tsuyoi" or "Aiki ga Tsuyoi", in my mind, I'm telling them that their technique/application of Aiki was very powerful/appropriate, yet almost all will interpret my words as critical.

"Tsuyoi" is connected with "chikara" which is a type of strength that is usually inappropriate in traditional Japanese arts.

Karo 06-17-2009 06:35 PM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
Ricky, Veltri Sensei has a million questions to answer already - we're currently in the "Miscellaneous" section of our Top-Secret Highly-Structured Five-Month Rotating Curriculum(TM)(C)(R) and people have submitted questions ranging from "how to deal with someone trying to strangle you in a dark alley" to "why are the dojo t-shirts so expensive and why do they come in white only"... :cool:

And besides, I really appreciate this forum for the opportunity it provides of hearing a number of different opinions, even if it doesn't result in a single answer. After all, it's not the destination that counts, but the path... :D

Karo

gdandscompserv 06-17-2009 06:58 PM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
Quote:

Karolina Owczarzak wrote: (Post 232921)
Ricky, Veltri Sensei has a million questions to answer already - we're currently in the "Miscellaneous" section of our Top-Secret Highly-Structured Five-Month Rotating Curriculum(TM)(C)(R) and people have submitted questions ranging from "how to deal with someone trying to strangle you in a dark alley" to "why are the dojo t-shirts so expensive and why do they come in white only"... :cool:

lol
Hey, I didn't know you guys had dojo t-shirts. I want one.
Glad to here you are keeping him busy!:D

Quote:

Karolina Owczarzak wrote: (Post 232921)
And besides, I really appreciate this forum for the opportunity it provides of hearing a number of different opinions, even if it doesn't result in a single answer. After all, it's not the destination that counts, but the path... :D

Karo

Agreed. Sounds like you are a good student.:cool:

Karo 06-18-2009 08:54 PM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
Quote:

Hey, I didn't know you guys had dojo t-shirts. I want one.
You mean you want one of ours? Hm, if you're sure you can fit into a size Medium (all that's left), this beautiful and stylish t-shirt can be yours for a modest donation of $25 to support our dojo...

I'm sure it can be arranged... :D

Karo

gdandscompserv 06-18-2009 09:30 PM

Re: Tsuyoku naritai
 
Quote:

Karolina Owczarzak wrote: (Post 233031)
You mean you want one of ours? Hm, if you're sure you can fit into a size Medium (all that's left), this beautiful and stylish t-shirt can be yours for a modest donation of $25 to support our dojo...

I'm sure it can be arranged... :D

Karo

Of course, one of yours. Medium won't do though. XXL or nothing for me!:D


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