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-   -   Poll: Do you think running away from an attacker is a valid method of resolving conflict using aikid (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1632)

AikiWeb System 03-17-2002 09:40 AM

AikiWeb Poll for the week of March 17, 2002:

Do you think running away from an attacker is a valid method of resolving conflict using aikido?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Yes
  • No
Here are the current results.

Chuck Clark 03-17-2002 11:05 AM

Running away is valid if it works. Otherwise, you're just prolonging the situation and changing the location. Of course, these may be viable tactical tools.

Regards,

Bruce Baker 03-17-2002 11:40 AM

Running Away/ Aikido?
 
Is running away Aikido? Good Question!

What is the relevence of the situation?

Is it a moral, or social dilemma you are willing to die for? Or something that will work itself out even if it leaves your ego bruised and hurting?

The reason Martial Arts came into being was injustice and inequities by larger stronger people over smaller people giving tactical advantage to the smaller person. It isn't stressed by all teachers in each class, but you must do what ever it takes to preserve your well being to live.

Rule one: We do not fight unless we have to. If you always remember rule one, then very rarely will you have to fight.

Rule two: If we must fight, we do not fight for material gains, or our own glorification.

Fits right in with Aikido, doesn't it? Problem is, the hormones of youth sometimes overcome reason so the imagination see's hero's and MA characters out of some movie script ... until reason of middleage to old age sets in, if you live that long!

That is the difficulty of clear mind, clear thoughts in this particular decision? What do you see in front of you?

On the whole, if in your heart you know no good will come of fighting, walking away is the option. You may have to pick your spot with something more serious, but then that is why we train? To support the morally correct freedom of our society, so there are more of us who endorse it than those who would destroy or create kaos, isn't it?

If it isn't, maybe we should do as O'Sensei suggests ... bring many of the troublemakers into the Aikido circle so that practice will wear away the roughness, polish the spirit, and help to make them a productive part of humanity. (something like that...)

Walk away?

If you know in your heart it is the right thing to do, and especialially if you know you could win but still walk away, yeah, I would call that Aikido.

Erik 03-18-2002 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Clark
Running away is valid if it works. Otherwise, you're just prolonging the situation and changing the location. Of course, these may be viable tactical tools.
Sometimes running away feeds the frenzy of the attacker(s) and you've not only changed the location but escalated it in the form of the frenzy or a couple of extra's who joined for the chase.

Chuck Clark 03-18-2002 07:47 AM

Please notice that I said "running away is valid if it works."

Like all other strategic decisions, we don't know if it's a good choice until we know if it really worked.

Regards,

Lyle Bogin 03-18-2002 08:08 AM

Absence of body is better than presence of mind ;).

Edward 03-18-2002 08:52 AM

Well, it depends on who has the better physical condition ;)

Feeding the frenzy of the attacker, in case he catches you finally, might serve your aikido better than a "calm" attacker who knows what he's doing.

In case you can get away from him, you will probably spend the rest of your life wondering who would have won, but at least you would be alive to think about it.

Cheers,
Edward

Edward 03-18-2002 08:55 AM

By the way, the decision to run away or face the attacker depends very much on the attacker's size vs. mine, and the chances he might have any weapons.

For example, I would run away from a guy with a knife but not one with a firearm.

Cheers,
Edward

Erik 03-18-2002 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Clark
Please notice that I said "running away is valid if it works."
I did notice that.

I just wanted to add that running could even escalate the situation and piggy backed it on your post. It's non-standard Aikido doctrine and I liked it.

JPT 03-19-2002 02:41 PM

Running way.... yes it is a viable defense e.g 1 against 50.... but I prefer to call it a Tactical Retreat at Speed. Or how about this against one attacker, Get up to full speed but then slow down letting your attacker catch up. Then just at right moment (as they are about to grab you) drop down into a ball on the floor, & your attacker will go flying straight over your body. A lovely Aiki Nage, which I used 20 years ago at school to catch out the bullies.
:triangle: :circle: :square:

Johan Tibell 03-21-2002 09:49 AM

Or you could do like in "Life of Brian". Run in circles until the attacker dies of a heart attack... ;) All for fun...

- Johan

Johan Tibell 03-21-2002 09:51 AM

Re: Running Away/ Aikido?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Baker

The reason Martial Arts came into being was injustice and inequities by larger stronger people over smaller people giving tactical advantage to the smaller person. It isn't stressed by all teachers in each class, but you must do what ever it takes to preserve your well being to live.

Well, yes and no. Depends on what you define as martial art. Bujutsu are techniques/tactics originally used in war. By both weak and strong...

- Johan

REK 03-21-2002 11:50 AM

using "aikido"
 
I suppose it depends upon how you define "aikido", and how much of the philosophy of the art that you make manifest in your daily life.

I voted no. Running away IS a valid method of resolving a conflict. I am not convinced it is a valid way of resolving a conflict using aikido. Sure, there are circumstances in which an efficient advance to the rear is the only sensible response. But how does running away "blend with the incoming force" or "redirect it into a more positive direction". Or does that only apply to the training in the dojo?

Just some thoughts

Rob

gadsmf@aol.com 03-22-2002 04:06 AM

"Of all of the 56 fighting forms, running away is by far the most effective"
Confucious, China, 8th Cuntury

Abasan 03-22-2002 11:58 AM

Quote:

Then just at right moment (as they are about to grab you) drop down into a ball on the floor, & your attacker will go flying straight over your body. A lovely Aiki Nage, which I used 20 years ago at school to catch out the bullies.
its great when it works doesn't it? unfortunately, for the sometimes that it doesn't... this is what happens.

aggressor, brakes at full speed using his leg and your ribs. Then keels over with a drop elbow on your exposed head. Says opps and dangnammit... Leaves the scene with a smirk on his face. (unless of course he was also an aikidoka who's conditioned to fly at a drop of a dime)

Brian H 03-22-2002 10:46 PM

Bad guy will just move on
 
So you got away!! Now somebody else will get their ass kicked instead! Maybe the altruistic thing to do is to let the Bad Guy work out his aggressions on you and save the next guy some pain. Maybe you are having a good day and the Bad Guy will work things out by smacking the ground REALLY HARD a few times. Maybe not.

JPT 03-23-2002 06:15 PM

Quote:

aggressor, brakes at full speed using his leg and your ribs. Then keels over with a drop elbow on your exposed head. Says opps and dangnammit... Leaves the scene with a smirk on his face. (unless of course he was also an aikidoka who's conditioned to fly at a drop of a dime)
Of course this could happen (or something similiar) if you do any of the aikido technique's incorrectly outside the dojo !!!

Quote:

But how does running away "blend with the incoming force" or "redirect it into a more positive direction". Or does that only apply to the training in the dojo?
I am not sure if this qualifies for answering your question but I'll tell you the story anyway.........
I once got into a bit of a scuffle with a little drunken irish man. At the time I had only done about 1 1/2 years of Karate (no Aikido). Myself & a few friends were walking home ,after a night at the pub, and physically stopped this chap from going swimming in the local river. Our reward for this good deed (for he was extremely drunk) was for him to accuse us of nicking his money and get angry. Naively I assumed my Karate pose and warned him off " I'm a student of Karate & don't want to fight etc..." Which was answered by him putting his hand in his back pocket and threating to cut me with an alleged blade. I knew from my karate training that if I had proper maai then he wouldn't be able to reach me. So as he advanced I backed off. As I backed off I had a great idea, which was to head towards the centre of town where I knew there would be lots of police. Soon after, we passed an extremely large man, who was going about his business in a notorious drug selling street. The irish guy, seeing that he wasn't getting any joy/action from me, started to shout at & insult this man. There was no doubt in my mind that if I let the irish guy continue then he would be in serious trouble. So I redirected him into chasing me again by taunting him & shouting that I was the one he really wanted to fight (thus saving him from a good kicking). I kept it up all the way back into town where the police finally had words with him.
:triangle: :circle: :square:

Chocolateuke 03-23-2002 11:02 PM

Yes!!
 
Sure once your gone the baddie might go for a easier prey but lets face it you wanna live and you have not been in the situation yet to acually fear for your life from someone assulting you. Neither have I. if I could find an opening for running then im out period, no what abou the next victum i wanna live... and besides
you could run to a police sation and describe the man and the police could be on a lookout. you dont have to beat the guy to resolve conflict, aikido is about using nonviolence running is nonviolent, and if i dont have faith in my technque then im better have more faith in running eh??

oh by the way if someone has a firearm studies show that if you run away you acually have a better chanch of survivle. untill then peace.

PeterR 03-23-2002 11:35 PM

A tactical retreat is part of every combat system - must be for a reason eh?

It will however rarely end a situation only delay it giving you time to get help, get a weapon, choose your ground, etc..

As for resolving conflict I don't think so. Unless the agressor chooses to let you go (or you can run faster) AND you have no need to go back to where he is then all you are left with is a very uncomfortable situation just waiting to explode.

Lucy Smith 04-19-2006 11:02 PM

Re: Poll: Do you think running away from an attacker is a valid method of resolving conflict using aikid
 
There's a thing I've read, that was something like "pain is temporary, pride is forever". I always thought this was INCREDIBLY stupid.

Kyudos 04-20-2006 09:41 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think running away from an attacker is a valid method of resolving c
 
Lucy... agreed! Very stupid!

Consider if you get killed, then temporary = forever!

Josh Reyer 04-20-2006 10:01 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think running away from an attacker is a valid method of resolving conflict using aikid
 
I would say...

Running away is not aikido.
Aikido may be running away.


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