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-   -   What to do when someone engages you... (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15563)

Marko Ilic 12-31-2008 04:48 AM

What to do when someone engages you...
 
So, what to do? A few days ago a guy was all I'm gonna beat ya all up. My friend was kinda scared. But I didn't have the guts to confront him about thinking he's all mighty.

What should I do when he again tries something like that? Should I stand up for my friend?

What would you do?

Thanks,
Marko

Tony Wagstaffe 12-31-2008 05:45 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Marko Ilic wrote: (Post 222385)
So, what to do? A few days ago a guy was all I'm gonna beat ya all up. My friend was kinda scared. But I didn't have the guts to confront him about thinking he's all mighty.

What should I do when he again tries something like that? Should I stand up for my friend?

What would you do?

Thanks,
Marko

Nothing......... Unless he does..... Just keep an eye out for him if he happens to reappear again..... and don't antagonise him or give him any excuse to assault you or your friend, just stay polite and keep your distance......
I don't know how the law stands in your part of the woods, but any unwanted physical contact is classed as common assault in the UK and is punishable by law..... DNA and all that?
Anything above that is actual bodily harm, then grevious bodily harm, manslaughter, murder......... Just stay cool as you say across the pond
Always a tricky one...:cool:

Tony

lbb 12-31-2008 08:10 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Marko Ilic wrote: (Post 222385)
So, what to do? A few days ago a guy was all I'm gonna beat ya all up. My friend was kinda scared. But I didn't have the guts to confront him about thinking he's all mighty.

What should I do when he again tries something like that? Should I stand up for my friend?

I'd say it depends on (among other things) how you and your friend got into that situation. Generically speaking, I've found one of the most successful de-escalation tactics to be to point out (in a neutral rather than threatening way) just how much trouble will result if the confrontation gets physical.

Marko Ilic 12-31-2008 11:30 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
We got into it when we were playing table tennis. That guy comes and he's all like I wanna play get lost you guys. I agree with you saying how troubling the results be, but if he wants to fight even after that should i warn him that our Sensei told us not to fight and make sure that someone hears.

What do you think of this plan?

Thank you for all the reply's,
Marko

Ron Tisdale 12-31-2008 11:34 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Bad plan. The moment you mention "sensei", the guy is either aware of your training and planning how to make you look foolish, or aware of your training, and planning how to outsmart it.

Either way...if I *need* to fight, then I *need* all my weapons, including surprise if I should throw the fellow on his head. I'm not going to tell him in advance what I'm going to do.

Best,
Ron (over a table tennis game?? You're kidding right? Hand him the paddles and walk away!)

Voitokas 12-31-2008 11:46 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Ron wrote:
(over a table tennis game?? You're kidding right? Hand him the paddles and walk away!)

Second that - smile and invite him to play winner, and if he's a jerk then walk away. I mean, who cares, right? A lot of fights (and probably wars) get started over the idea that honour is something that needs to be defended, but there is as much or more in avoiding a fight as engaging in one.

John Connolly 12-31-2008 12:13 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Hand him the paddles and leave (with the balls in your pocket). :cool:

C. David Henderson 12-31-2008 12:53 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
:straightf Much preferable to the other way (the paddle in your pocket and...):straightf

Ron Tisdale 12-31-2008 12:56 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
YIKES!

Did I start that??? :D

B,
R

lifeafter2am 12-31-2008 12:59 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote: (Post 222429)
Bad plan. The moment you mention "sensei", the guy is either aware of your training and planning how to make you look foolish, or aware of your training, and planning how to outsmart it.

Either way...if I *need* to fight, then I *need* all my weapons, including surprise if I should throw the fellow on his head. I'm not going to tell him in advance what I'm going to do.

Best,
Ron (over a table tennis game?? You're kidding right? Hand him the paddles and walk away!)

I could not agree with this more! Never, ever mention anything of the sort, it puts you at a great disadvantage if you do have to fight.

Although in this situation (because of the trivialness of the event) I would most likely agree with handing the paddles over, normally I don't cave to a-holes who pick on the (presumed) weak. I got in a fight in a similar situation, where some "tough guys" were doing almost the same thing to a handicapped kid (except it was with a video game in an arcade and they were trying to get the controller away from him). That I could not turn away from, and I didn't. But I also tend to look at situations as whether I can handle them or not, and what the legal standpoint would be as well. Show me a jury that would convict me of defending a handicapped kid from a group of bullies if they decided to press charges.

I can't tell you exactly what to do in your situation, as I don't believe that the world is black and white enough to have simple answers and I wasn't there to witness it (not that I don't trust your account, but eye-witness accounts are statistically inaccurate), but I certainly would not resort to violence, as I don't condone starting fights, only defending yourself or others should the need arise.

mathewjgano 12-31-2008 01:08 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Marko Ilic wrote: (Post 222385)
So, what to do? A few days ago a guy was all I'm gonna beat ya all up. My friend was kinda scared. But I didn't have the guts to confront him about thinking he's all mighty.

What should I do when he again tries something like that? Should I stand up for my friend?

What would you do?

Thanks,
Marko

Hard to say of course. My general attitude is that I'm content to let idiots posture. In similar situations I've displayed that I really didn't care that much about what the bully was after...but I genuinely didn't care.
On the other hand...one idiot (one of my best friends) got his nose broken and he learned something from it. Yet on another hand, some folks don't learn well like that. I knew folks who took the Joe Pesci approach (his character in Casino), and they only know how to escalate. I think it's usually best to let the dog enjoy his bark.

Ketsan 12-31-2008 02:39 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Marko Ilic wrote: (Post 222385)
So, what to do? A few days ago a guy was all I'm gonna beat ya all up. My friend was kinda scared. But I didn't have the guts to confront him about thinking he's all mighty.

What should I do when he again tries something like that? Should I stand up for my friend?

What would you do?

Thanks,
Marko

I tend to just look at them. Not stare, just stand nice and relaxed, make no threatening movements and I just keep my eyes on them and keep my distance. If they've announced their intention to fight then there's nothing to talk about, so I stay silent.

So far everyone I've done this to has cracked and found something better to do.

Don_Modesto 12-31-2008 04:03 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
As usual, I agree with Ron--never threaten with having studied MA, you'll just be mocked. On the other hand, there's this bit of advertising: http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...ER-459551.html

(Completely psyched out his opponent.)

lifeafter2am 12-31-2008 04:07 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Don J. Modesto wrote: (Post 222471)
As usual, I agree with Ron--never threaten with having studied MA, you'll just be mocked. On the other hand, there's this bit of advertising: http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...ER-459551.html

(Completely psyched out his opponent.)

That was a great video! I totally thought the "homie" was going to give up, because he kept backing up and putting his hands down, like he didn't know what to do. Then ..... BAM!

*edit* I can't stop watching it, I find it sooo amusing! *edit*

gregg block 12-31-2008 04:13 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
If he invades your space in an agressive manner DROP HIM. Other wise put your pride on the shelf, lay the paddles on the table and go have a beer!

GeneC 12-31-2008 05:41 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Imo, it depends on how much you want to fight, 'cause the first response could be ,"Well, ya got the easy part over with, Sunshine. Talkin' about it."

Really, this falls in the "Mindset" area- be aware of your surroundings and don't get yourself into that situation. Don't go into unlit reas. If you see folks in front of you , cross the street, take a different direction/route, walkin to a lit are/store, get yourself around other people, etc
All confrontatons should be considered serious, as they can escalate to be fatal real quickly. Any sign of being afraid or passive will enable the BG.
This is that big gray area in the gun world too, as by law we're legally able to use lethal force only in a felony situation, which this is not. You might want to consider taser. You do not want to allow the Bg to "get in your face", as it's be proven that a BG with a knife can get to you and stab/cut you from 21 ft away, pretty much before you can correctly respond (OODA loop issue). If you do not want to fight, I'd suggest taking a fighting stance and assert that you don not want to fight, but prepare for the worse. Do not turn your back on a bg EVER( alot of MA techniques have you doing that). Main thing is to try and find out why this bg has singled you out, but know, they think they can take you. If they just don't like the way you look, you may have no choice but to fight, but of course, we try to avoid that at all costs. My policy is to be friendly to all, but have a plan to kill them.

Voitokas 12-31-2008 08:49 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Where I come from we try to make friends before committing ourselves to enmity. It may sound naive, but I don't cross the street if someone's walking toward me - I smile and catch their eye and say "hi". If you don't feel like you're in a position to be aggressively nice yet, you might consider working on developing that confidence as part of your aikido practise. I would disagree with GeneC about guns and tasers and having a plan to kill your neighbours and such ;) - but I would agree with his suggestion to think about why your putative bully has singled you out. Learning how to be popular and well-liked will stand you in better stead in the long run than learning how to be tough.

Kevin Leavitt 12-31-2008 09:16 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Sounds like a case of bullying. Bullies have more at issue than a simple game of ping pong. Not always easy to deal with especially if you have to face them in the same environment everyday. Fighting of course should be the last resort, and you should try and de-escalate the situation as best you can. Ron's suggestion of walking away is a good one. If you have to come back the next day, and the next...and it continues to be an issue. Observe and see if there is something else going on that you might be able to skillfully solve to get this guy to stop.

Ping Pong is certainly not something on my high priority list to fight over.

If you are cornered and have no other option but to fight and defend yourself, well then you must do that. but ego and honor are not reasons IMO to ever fight.

lbb 12-31-2008 10:00 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
I'd like to post a link to something that a very clued-in guy once wrote on the subject of "engaging". Take a read of this and tell me what you think.

Joe McParland 01-01-2009 02:05 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 222497)
I'd like to post a link to something that a very clued-in guy once wrote on the subject of "engaging". Take a read of this and tell me what you think.

Who knows how the world did not change because someone was so attached to this concept of "living at home"? Living this way, with fear of acting or regret for not acting, is one definition of hell on earth.

If I must die,
I would hope that I leave with my body,
not before.

C. David Henderson 01-01-2009 10:21 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Regret can be laudanum for the soul; cloying and sometimes addictive.

I read the link to be more about consequences and choice; but I see your point, Joe.

Regards,

David

Joe McParland 01-01-2009 11:24 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Someday, my wife will leave me or I will leave her.
Someday, I will leave my children or they will leave me.
Someday, I will leave this house or this house will fall around me.
Time does this. We leave as we entered.

Living explicitly to keep what ultimately cannot be kept is one framework for decision making. Is it a good one?

If someone chooses to do or not to do so as not to lose the chance to sleep in his house tonight, then that house is already his grave. Conversely, a jail cell can be paradise if you are free.

I am dumbfounded to hear practitioners of budo say, "Think of what you have to lose," either in advance or in retrospect.

This is not to say "Fight!" and this is not to say "Don't fight!" This is not to say "Be overly cautious" and this is not to say "Be reckless." This is to say do what needs to be done given your circumstances. Then, once that moment is gone, leave it, without regret, knowing that the consequences of both what you did and what you did not do truly are unknowable.

The referenced link aside, let's return to the OP's situation. The moment passed, but he asks, essentially, what should he have done? Why is there any question at all? What is the source? Perhaps because he studied aikido and feels he didn't use it? Perhaps because he had an expectation of how things should have been and now he sees disparity? Is not one purpose of budo not to cut through this type of thinking?

Ah, my first New Year's rambling... ;)

lbb 01-01-2009 11:43 AM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Joe McParland wrote: (Post 222515)
Who knows how the world did not change because someone was so attached to this concept of "living at home"? Living this way, with fear of acting or regret for not acting, is one definition of hell on earth.

I'm inclined to think that you didn't read the link or at least, that you skipped the last couple of paragraphs. Either that, or you're the original humpty dumpty, redefining living where you want, with a partner and two children whom you love deeply, as "hell on earth".

Joe McParland 01-01-2009 12:12 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 222536)
I'm inclined to think that you didn't read the link or at least, that you skipped the last couple of paragraphs. Either that, or you're the original humpty dumpty, redefining living where you want, with a partner and two children whom you love deeply, as "hell on earth".

I bow to your superior understanding.

lbb 01-01-2009 12:34 PM

Re: What to do when someone engages you...
 
Quote:

Joe McParland wrote: (Post 222542)
I bow to your superior understanding.

Didn't mean to be snarky. It helps that I do know the guy personally. He's not naturally the turn-the-cheek type, but he has learned that when you live among other people, you have to pull in your horns a lot of the time. He's a happy person, hardly suffering through "hell on earth".


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