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-   -   Advice on Knee Support (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15307)

feck 10-28-2008 05:30 AM

Advice on Knee Support
 
Hi people,

havent posted in a while. Probably since i ripped my cruciate ligament during practice.

Anyway I started again on sunday, at the same dojo on a 10 week beginners course, going to keep it at a bare minimum for awhile, just once a week.

Although my knee is healed fairly well after about 2 years or so, seiza is crippling me, as well as the constant picking myself off of the floor.
Maybe most of its just gettting back into the swing of things, but I would like some advice on a knee guard, support guard type of deal.

What should i be actually looking for?, or even links to appropriate products. Ideally anyone with a similiar injury, who uses these knee supports, what have you found to be the best products?

Thanks

feck

mickeygelum 10-28-2008 08:35 AM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
Hello Mr. Paul,

Hope these help...Personally, I use a Mueller Hg80.

http://www.braceshop.com/

http://www.kneeshop.com/

Train well,

Mickey

feck 10-28-2008 08:47 AM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
Thanks for responding mickey,

Does this restrict you in anyway in seiza, ie: make it more uncomfortable?

Keith Larman 10-28-2008 09:48 AM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
As a guy who has suffered through a couple injuries... Yeah, I can sympathize. People often ask me if the falls are what hurts. No, it's the getting up over and over again.

So my free advice -- all worth what you paid. Braces can help, but they're more about preventing more damage. If the problem is your knees getting sore when getting up you may really need to strengthen the legs. After my injuries I've had problems keeping my legs strong enough. That translated into lots of problems later with fatigue, soreness, etc. But it was really more about having lost strength due to the layoff and the injury. Not to mention all those things you do to "favor" or protect the injured area. So ideally spend some time with a sports phsyical therapist and get some exercises appropriate for both what you need and that won't cause more problems with the tender joints.

Another point is that if you are carrying extra weight... Well, the next sentence should be obvious. Dropping weight makes it easier to stand up. Something I need to work on some more...

Just fwiw.

And I used a very high end custom made Thompson Derotational brace for one knee for a long time. It was great -- carbon fiber, super strong hinges, it felt great. The problem was that sometimes I'd clip someone... Oops, sorry about that. But you can get over-reliant on the braces when the real problem is more about the rehab of the knee itself and the muscles around it.

Anyway, get thee to a good therapist or else listen to the one you have. It takes time to get flexibility back but it sounds more like you need to regain strength than so much need more support. Doing both would probably be a good idea, however...

Janet Rosen 10-28-2008 10:18 AM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
You might want to check with your orthopedist, physical therapist, and a good local athletic trainer, and see if perhaps their advice is don't sit in seiza.
I've made it a point to avoid seiza and have adapted how I fall and how I get up since my knee surgeries.
I agree w/ Keith's warning about the use and limitations of braces.

Abasan 10-30-2008 01:19 AM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
Hi, I used to wear knee supports. Problem didn't originate there though, more from flat feet. This will affect back and knee.

I know its not similar to your more localised injury.

Just wanted to support the post above. I dropped 20kgs and I don't wear the supports anymore. Also, forget seiza. It'll just screw your knees up in the long run.

barron 02-14-2013 06:42 PM

Advice on Knee Support ( Fusion XT OA Knee Brace)
 
Starting Aikido at 49, and practicing for the past 13 years, I have been lucky enough to have suffered only two or three minor injuries. My first incident came after my first month when I did a roll into the dojo wall and sprained my big toe to discover how important the big toe was for walking and balance! My other injuries were a sore shoulder from a new student who thought ikkyo was a break verses a persuasion. My previous being a rather aggressive senior student who hyper extended my arm beyond where it wanted to go, and where he decided to take it.

Now am faced with simple wear a tear on my right knee probably caused by my half century of endurance sports. Osteoarthritis is not a nice repercussion of doing what one loves, and really gets in the way my aikido. (sawari waza and hamihandachi are definitely a thing of the past).

With age has taking the next step, I am hobbling and experience pain simply walking. I've had cortisone, acupuncture, leech treatment (yes that's right little blood suckers) and doctors telling me I'm getting old.

I managed, with a large dose of fear and adrenaline, to get through my last test but now need to deal with this if I want to keep playing/practicing.

I meet with my doctor soon to discuss possibilities and am looking for advice from the aikido world on the specialized knee braces ( Fusion XT OA Knee Brace) build to take the pressure off the knee. If any one has any experience, advice or suggestions I would appreciate it as I'd like to play for another 15 to 20 years.

Thanks

Dan Richards 02-14-2013 07:44 PM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
I agree with the camp here that's saying forget the brace and forget seiza. I'd even add, that if getting up and down off the floor is causing you pain, then forget doing that - at least for the time being.

There's absolutely no reason why you can't have a good and satisfying training session without ever going down to the mat even once.

Janet Rosen 02-14-2013 08:49 PM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
First thing we all need to understand is how no two of us are alike. I have awful osteo in the knee that was blown out over a dozen years ago, but can get up and down off the mat pretty well within the context of a couple of classes a week - its standing and pivoting that kill me, so weapons work can be hard....
I was one of the original voices for "don't do seiza" and realizing the limitations of braces. Having said that, there ARE now specific high tech braces made specifically for folks who have trouble with simple weightbearing (standing, walking) - like Andrew I'd be interested in hearing any specific feedback on these.
Myself, if it came down to being on the verge of stopping training or not being able to take walks or garden the way I'd like, the next step I'd look into (assuming my insurance covered it) would be one of the hyaline or viscous types of injections and after that joint replacement.

Aikeway 02-15-2013 04:51 AM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
I have found cycling to be excellent for knee problems. I use long bandages for both my knees with "Bike" knee supports over the bandages for serious training. However, sitting in seiza is impossible with this set-up as knee mobility is greatly reduced.

Brian Beach 02-15-2013 10:44 AM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
I had an ACL replacement and I'm in the strengthening group. I use a kettlebell, swimming and also pistol squats. The pistols can be done at various heights. http://youtu.be/GLY1z4Znzuo

barron 02-15-2013 12:40 PM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
Thanks for the replies.

I'm dealing with a purely mechanical problem. Bone on bone with limited padding between. I do cycle without pain which is good (mountain and road) but bipedal movement is getting increasingly difficult and hiking season only a few month away ( I hope only three !) Unfortunately the strengthening does not help the bone on bone contact.

I can cheat when I teach and do all pins standing. I also only demo on my good side if I have any nagare or tenkans involved.

I have modified my practice greatly and was hoping to hear from people who have osteoarthritis and have use an OA brace.

Cheers

Janet Rosen 02-15-2013 01:14 PM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
Quote:

Andrew Barron wrote: (Post 323584)
Thanks for the replies.

I'm dealing with a purely mechanical problem. Bone on bone with limited padding between. I do cycle without pain which is good (mountain and road) but bipedal movement is getting increasingly difficult and hiking season only a few month away ( I hope only three !) Unfortunately the strengthening does not help the bone on bone contact.

I can cheat when I teach and do all pins standing. I also only demo on my good side if I have any nagare or tenkans involved.

I have modified my practice greatly and was hoping to hear from people who have osteoarthritis and have use an OA brace.

Cheers

Andrew, I am equally curious. I wonder if it would be worth your while taking the post I'm quoting here and spinning it off as a brand new thread topic rather than an old one - some folks may be opening the link, seeing at the OP it's a resurrected thread and clicking away.

dreamborn 02-20-2013 03:32 PM

Re: Advice on Knee Support
 
Darren

I also had some knee issues recently. What helped me was to get compression sleeves for my knee. The reason I like them is that they offer some support without being restrictive. Yes I can sit in seiza easily with them. I got mine in Japan but I think you can get them at most sporting goods stores or on-line. Hope you find something that helps.


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