AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   General (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Non-Profit Dojo? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15015)

deathlinenetworks 08-26-2008 09:56 AM

Non-Profit Dojo?
 
just wondering. is your dojo a non-profit organisation?

Ketsan 08-26-2008 10:51 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Quote:

Nicholas Hu wrote: (Post 214550)
just wondering. is your dojo a non-profit organisation?

Yep.

Marc Abrams 08-26-2008 11:51 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Shin-Budo Kai in New York City is a not-for-profit entity.

Marc Abrams

Larry Cuvin 08-26-2008 12:50 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Yes, Oregon Ki Society is non-profit organization.

Eric Webber 08-26-2008 08:10 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Aikido West Reading (Pa) is not-for-profit.

grondahl 08-27-2008 02:47 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Yes. I think that all aikido dojos that Im aware of in Sweden are non-profit (maybe one exeption).

Enrique Antonio Reyes 08-27-2008 04:45 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
There are a mixture of Non-profit and for profit dojos here in the Philippines.

I notice that Not-for-profit dojos are usually affiliated with Hombu and For-profit dojos are usually independent.

Does anyone have a similar observation?

One-Aiki,

Iking

Walter Martindale 08-27-2008 05:07 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Profit? What's that?

crbateman 08-27-2008 06:04 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
I think the majority of the dojos are non-profit, whether set up accordingly or not. I think it just works out that way... :o

Jesse Legon 08-27-2008 06:39 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Quote:

Walter Martindale wrote: (Post 214613)
Profit? What's that?

Haha! :D

Profit is the smidge of surplus money a club has until it spends it on new weapons/mats/trips etc.

Mary Eastland 08-27-2008 07:14 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
We are not non profit. I would say we are break even. ;o)
Mary

jennifer paige smith 08-28-2008 09:47 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
No

aikidoc 08-28-2008 05:45 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Most modern dojos that don't give away ranks are "non-profit".

Goye 08-29-2008 11:26 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Yep!!

Walter Martindale 08-30-2008 01:41 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Quote:

Jesse Legon wrote: (Post 214618)
Haha! :D

Profit is the smidge of surplus money a club has until it spends it on new weapons/mats/trips etc.

Dojos I've been involved in had to be in established buildings, or they've had pretty major cash input from their chief instructor(s). (I've never had any cash to contribute) Generally speaking, the accounts have usually been in parentheses (negative). Frankly I don't know how most of them survive unless they're sponsored by a university or something (I've also been the treasurer of a dojo - it was definitely non-profit)
Cheers.
W

DH 08-30-2008 06:27 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Taught in a church for free
I taught in a dojo (mostly judo) as one of five teachers-I taught jujutsu. While having the largest student base-I gave all the money to the main teacher who rented the space-till I quit.
Then taught out of my house for free
I now host visitors in a barn (since 1997) on my property for free while covering all the costs; mats, heat, lights, air conditioning etc.
I figure if someone hands me about fifty grand-I might reach the status of ...non profit.

Shannon Frye 08-30-2008 11:15 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
I think that, around here at least, being "non-profit" simply means that you filed the paperwork and found a awy around some taxes. We have bunches of so called "non-profits" around here (other than aiki) that charge just as much or more than other dojos. They'll stick it to you regarding fees, but are quick to point out their "non-profit" status.

Anymore, what does being licensed and registered as a "non-profit" really mean?

Shannon

jennifer paige smith 08-31-2008 09:45 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
For me the question is who do non-profits profit?

Shannon Frye 08-31-2008 10:42 AM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 214997)
For me the question is who do non-profits profit?

Good question. Here, I'd say mostly the people who own/run the dojo. For example, we have a dojo near me (I formerly attended) that has a youth sparring team. They travel to different tournaments as a team. The "dojo" is primarily a day care center during the day, and an afterschool program (still daycare) when they pick up the kids at their schools. They transport the kids o the dojo, run a 1 hour class, then give snack and homework assistance.

They claim that their "profits" go towards supporting the sparring team. Yet they make the parents pay for all expenses. All equipment must be purchased through the dojo (at a profit). Fun raisers are held throughout the year to raise more money for the "team".

They even have issued tax exempt statements, so their customers can get a tax deduction for the money they paid, under the guise of "non-profit".

They have 20-30 students (children), and are raking in money hand over fist. But they are non profit. I just don't get it.

Not knocking anyone with that status, but realy what does it mean to be non-profit? What benefits are there to being registered as non-profit? What requirements are there?

Shannon

gdandscompserv 08-31-2008 02:41 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Quote:

Shannon Frye wrote: (Post 214999)
Not knocking anyone with that status, but realy what does it mean to be non-profit? What benefits are there to being registered as non-profit? What requirements are there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)

Fred Little 08-31-2008 08:36 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Quote:

Shannon Frye wrote: (Post 214999)
Not knocking anyone with that status, but realy what does it mean to be non-profit? What benefits are there to being registered as non-profit? What requirements are there?Shannon

It generally means that:

1) No investor has an ownership interest in the enterprise and no investor receives dividends on the investment.

2) A not-for-profit may have a positive cash flow.

3) Certain government paperwork (state or federal) has been filed certifying these and other conditions

It does not mean that:

1) Nobody gets paid

2) That those who get paid get paid less than they would in a for-profit enterprise.

3) That money given is tax-deductible.

Some forms of grants to not-for-profits will actually require that all services provided for the not-for-profit are compensated at prevailing rates.

What the deal is in relation to each of these depends on what kind of legal "not-for-profit" status the entity has.

But in almost every case, "not-for-profit" does not mean that all labor is volunteer and nobody is getting paid. It's a good bet that if an organization goes ahead and files the paperwork, somebody is getting expenses paid at a minimum.

Grist for the mill.

FL

Chuck Clark 08-31-2008 11:11 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Being not-for-profit also means that you're a public corporation and are subject to laws you may not be aware of... look before you leap.

Keith Larman 08-31-2008 11:32 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Quote:

Fred Little wrote: (Post 215013)
...But in almost every case, "not-for-profit" does not mean that all labor is volunteer and nobody is getting paid. It's a good bet that if an organization goes ahead and files the paperwork, somebody is getting expenses paid at a minimum.

Grist for the mill.

FL

To help make this point I had an interesting experience a few years ago.

I help a non-profit dog training group (they provide dog training via a city program to pay for permits to allow the members a place to do their training for AKC showing). This small non-profit puts on one dog show a year. The club had been in doing this as a non-profit in the same place for over 60 years in the City of Pasadena. Everyone volunteers their time. Most of the money the group makes goes to etiher support the show they put on, pay for the permits, and also a major portion of fees go to the city. What's left over basically covers expenses. They also do volunteer stuff for city sponsored programs. And try to send a check to the local Humane Society if anything is left in the account at the end of the year.

Anyway, a bunch of years back a non-profit "kidspace" (patent pending, trademark, etc.) moved into the area. Cool. Took my kid as a matter of fact. One year they decided they wanted to put on an event the same weekend as ours in the same location. Never mind we'd been doing it on that same weekend for over 60 years... So there was a conflict. Kidspace wouldn't budge because they wanted to do their thing so the city arranged a meeting at the kidspace offices. So here I go with a club member to have this meeting to try to work something out. The offices are a wonderful building on the same premises. One wall was solid glass. Very cool! The carpet is lush and lovely. The furniture and tables in the meeting room are high grade wood. Computers on every desk as we came in. And lots of enthusiastic young people running around, most full time employees.

We had our meeting and they basically wouldn't budge. The lovely woman made a comment saying that they should be able to have their event because they're a non-profit after all. I pointed out that we were too. I also pointed out that the furniture and decorating in the building could have paid for a small businesses' operating expenses for a year...

As we were leaving the armored truck pulled up to collect the day's receipts. One city worker I was chatting with as we watched this in the parking lot said he thinks that on weekends they come twice...

And walking through the lot I saw that full time employee I had been speaking to in the building along with another employee. Both got into very nice luxury cars and drove away. I learned a lot about non-profits that day...

Now I don't mean this as a rag against Kidspace. Okay, maybe a little. It was jarring to say the least. And unpleasant. But the point is that they are non-profit as well. And they enjoy considerable "support" from major corporations and donors. And I'm sure they do good work although they treated us like warmed over pond scum for daring to complicate their perceived good works. 900-pound gorilla was the phrase used by one of the city personnel who happened to be there. However, as non-profits they are allowed to have offices, furnish them, spend wildly, pay salaries, and do pretty much everything a normal business does except show a profit that goes out as dividends or the like.

Lots of people are making lots of money. And they have really nice offices. And really a primo location subsidized greatly by the local government (read that paid for by the taxpayers).

But they are non-profit.

Yeah, I got a lot more cynical that day...

jennifer paige smith 09-01-2008 02:22 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
Well, my question was rhetorical, I admit. And my point is that non-profit doesn't necessarily make you a corporation doing good works. It is a corporate distinction with all the potential pitfalls and corruption to be found in a corporate environment.
Many believe 'non-profit- means providing for the benefit of others first. That would be my definition of Service, not my definition of non-profit.
Having said that, many non-profits do amazing work, just as do many private businesses.

Keith Larman 09-01-2008 04:33 PM

Re: Non-Profit Dojo?
 
For some deciding to become a non-profit is oddly enough a calculated business decision. Salaries can still be paid, bonuses given, etc.

For many groups being a non-profit is exactly a result them being good people trying to do good things. But sometimes even good things grow into bureaucracies that take on a life of their own and become just as much about self-preservation and enrichment "in order to continue to do good".

I've also had the great honor of having worked for a variety of charities in various capacities. Many are very good things. Some are more efficient than others. And some, well, it is amazing how many people have their hands out that don't really seem to be related to the overt mission of the charity...

So when it comes to dojo, well, I stopped worrying about non-profit vs. for profit a long time ago. Non-profit status makes sense in many cases when classes are held out of things like city owned facilities. Or church activity rooms. Or things like that. But if you're talking about a larger, more robust establishment with a dedicated space and more involved instruction, non-profit seems to make less sense. And frankly I think those who make the effort to be full-time instructors and offer up a professional service with consistent hours, well, I don't begrudge them making a profit.

And all that said... You should see the salaries many executives of non-profit charities pull down...

So to me it makes little difference. As long as it is above board either way it just doesn't matter to me.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:26 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.