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Michael Ghekiere 08-15-2008 05:59 PM

Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Apologies if this is not the correct place to post this.

Ikazuchi Dojo posted a video of Matsuoka Sensei, called Aikido "Action Cut" Video. It looks to be a combination of choreography and actual randori. The director, Hiroshi Katagiri, is one of Matsuoka Sensei's Shodan studying at Doshinokai Dojo in Culver City, where I also train.

It's a potpourri of stuff (jo, bokken, randori, punch, kick, etc.)

I thought it might be of interest to the population at large. I absolutely loved it!

-Mike

SeiserL 08-16-2008 12:21 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
I have had the pleasure and honor of training with Sensei Several time. Always instructional and inspiring. Great video. Compliments.
Rei, Domo.

mjchip 08-16-2008 07:17 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
That is a well choreographed video. Very nice.

Mark

Quote:

Michael Ghekiere wrote: (Post 213707)
Apologies if this is not the correct place to post this.

Ikazuchi Dojo posted a video of Matsuoka Sensei, called Aikido "Action Cut" Video. It looks to be a combination of choreography and actual randori. The director, Hiroshi Katagiri, is one of Matsuoka Sensei's Shodan studying at Doshinokai Dojo in Culver City, where I also train.

It's a potpourri of stuff (jo, bokken, randori, punch, kick, etc.)

I thought it might be of interest to the population at large. I absolutely loved it!

-Mike


James Edwards 08-17-2008 06:25 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
I love it!
A little dramatic but a very good potpourri.
Answers those odd "what is Aikido?" questions too.

DH 08-17-2008 07:59 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Answers questions? About what?
There are more than a few Aikido teachers I know, who would join me in dismissing it alltogether.

What does a choreographed video have to do with Budo? Hollywood loves that sort of claptrap-we shouldn't.
The "potentials" displayed are simply ridiculous. It displays such a profound lack of understanding of weapons that after the students picked them up -class should have begun with a few years worth of corrections. This is a good demonstration of why most every Koryu art dismisses Aikido's use of weapons. It is foundationally flawed in it approach. I just don't see any value in making even more beautiful myths. Hollywood did quite a good job of ruining the reality of budo. The last thing we need is to give it more help.
As budo people I feel we should not take part in these things. What value is there in fantasy in our dojo? None. So why put one on film?

stan baker 08-17-2008 08:58 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
No wonder why many martial arts make fun of aikido.

stan

James Edwards 08-17-2008 10:01 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 213771)
Answers questions? About what?
There are more than a few Aikido teachers I know, who would join me in dismissing it alltogether.

What does a choreographed video have to do with Budo? Hollywood loves that sort of claptrap-we shouldn't.
The "potentials" displayed are simply ridiculous. It displays such a profound lack of understanding of weapons that after the students picked them up -class should have begun with a few years worth of corrections. This is a good demonstration of why most every Koryu art dismisses Aikido's use of weapons. It is foundationally flawed in it approach. I just don't see any value in making even more beautiful myths. Hollywood did quite a good job of ruining the reality of budo. The last thing we need is to give it more help.
As budo people I feel we should not take part in these things. What value is there in fantasy in our dojo? None. So why put one on film?

Yes I realise those points as well. What I meant was it works as a tool to dismiss people who ask about Aikido but keep their mind closed to the deeper idea of budo. Also for those who have no idea what the art is about at all. A sort of short cut in answering. Or an evasion that may lead to nowhere if you may.

Sorry I did not make that clear. It was a careless comment of mine. On the other hand although the video does not reflect the true image of the art, I still do appreciate the work that had gone into it. There are countless more videos with the same purpose but with much lower qualities leading to even worse interpretation of the art.

Michael Ghekiere 08-17-2008 02:52 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
I enjoyed the choreography as well, but my favorite parts are when Sensei does randori. This is not choreographed, and it is always a pleasure to see Sensei demonstrate. I have studied with Matsuoka Sensei since 1991, and randori seems like it will forever elude my understanding.

mathewjgano 08-17-2008 06:56 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 213771)
The "potentials" displayed are simply ridiculous. It displays such a profound lack of understanding of weapons that after the students picked them up -class should have begun with a few years worth of corrections...It is foundationally flawed in it approach.
As budo people I feel we should not take part in these things. What value is there in fantasy in our dojo? None. So why put one on film?

Would you be willing to give an analysis of even just one or two segments and how they display a lack in understanding? I'm glad you're able to see how it's flawed and let us know about it, but can you help us a bit more than that?
Take care,
Matt

Buck 08-17-2008 08:03 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Good video. An since everyone is a critic, I will throw in my 2 chips. The Jo segment with the UKE (not the Sensei) looking surprised when his weapon was taken away by the Sensei...a bit over acted by the Uke. I didn't feel I was convinced by the uke's performance because of that. Don't think the Uke will beat Keith out for his role as the Joker. I'll take a 010th deduction away, so with, that the Uke will take home the bronze.

Post-production editing- the match cutting was a little too much where it wasn't needed, toward the end of the randori. It confuses the action, and so the film drifts alittle.

Musical score a little over powering. The music has to score the film to add tension, and pulse to the film. Constant tension created my the music was held at the same level, the musical score run over the film like a train.

What I liked, was it had good direction. Good camera work. I felt the action, I was right there with it. The stunts where good, and the chorography was well done.

"Two thumbs ups and a hakama"
Buck "Ebert" film Critic of Ikeyweekly.

The clip was very good, and well done. It was honest. It wasn't attempting to trick or fool people. The description told you what it was and what to expect and the credits did too. The in the credits, it was choreographed and the ukes were credited as stunts. Nothing was hidden, or fishy. It was a good demo clip highlighting Aikido. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

seank 08-17-2008 08:39 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
I agree that this was very well shot, it drew the viewer in very well, and it covered some of the orthodoxes among the various flavours of Aikido.

Whilst there were some technical areas I thought were a little glossed, overall it presented very well and credibly.

I disagree that this kind of video denigrates any idea of budo because the very nature of the medium dictates a degree of latitude, both from the creator and the viewer.

A bit of appreciation for the work, effort and talent that went into the production. I enjoyed the clip.

"Two thumbs up, a hakama and a bokken"

Aikibu 08-17-2008 08:57 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 213771)
Answers questions? About what?
There are more than a few Aikido teachers I know, who would join me in dismissing it alltogether.

Why? I think you watched this before you had your morning meditation and coffee Seriously.

Quote:

What does a choreographed video have to do with Budo? Hollywood loves that sort of claptrap-we shouldn't.
Budo in Western Culture? In a phrase... Marketing and Promotion. I witnessed Matsuoka Sensei's Demo at the Aiki Expo in 05. He has an excellent understanding of Aikido. Are you suggesting that it would have been better to use live blades and filmed in a Biker bar?

Quote:

The "potentials" displayed are simply ridiculous. It displays such a profound lack of understanding of weapons that after the students picked them up -class should have begun with a few years worth of corrections. This is a good demonstration of why most every Koryu art dismisses Aikido's use of weapons. It is foundationally flawed in it approach.
I am personally not a fan of any Aikido Weapons approach other than our own and for good reason. That being said his foundation in weapons is solid in my humble opinion. Why don't you watch the video again after you get your coffee...

Quote:

I just don't see any value in making even more beautiful myths. Hollywood did quite a good job of ruining the reality of budo. The last thing we need is to give it more help.
As budo people I feel we should not take part in these things. What value is there in fantasy in our dojo? None. So why put one on film?
Well since we can't wander the countryside building our reputations in challenge matches to the death how does one define Budo in the modern age Dan? HMMMMMMMM?

Which reinforces a point brought up by Mr. Gano. You Dan my friend spend one heck of allot of time using Argumentum Ad Authoritum. As Clint Eastwood said in Heartbreak Ridge (I first heard it from George C Conrad One of the finest Rangers I ever served with) "You can hit me, kick me, beat me, stab me, even shoot me....Hell...Just don't BORE me."

Your critiques lack validity Dan....And without specific facts and/or explanations as to why you feel the way you do You're just another Bore.

I think more of you than that but then again I have learned the hard way not to post anything before I have had my morning coffee. :D

I hope you take this post in context with good spirit ;:) and why not provide the dear reader with some valid reason behind your harsh judgment of a very good effort by Matsuoka Sensei to share his expression of Aikido?

William Hazen

Will Prusner 08-17-2008 10:45 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 213771)
Hollywood did quite a good job of ruining the reality of budo.

How do you go about ruining the reality of something? Is it really even possible? Did Van Gogh ruin the reality of a starry night?

Seems to be more a case of "one artist's interpretation".

Seems to me that you have the ultimate "reality". And on the other side, the perceptions of those who experience it. Sometimes those perceptions manifest in some medium of art. No prob in my book.

By the way, I've heard some pretty far out stories about O'sensei. I won't debate their veracity because I wasn't there. However, on the remote possibility that some of them aren't 100% factual, I certainly wouldn't say that they ruin the reality of The Man, Himself. And furthermore, I'd probably shell out the 10 bucks to see it if the Evil Empire of Hollywood saw fit to pump out a multi-million dollar blockbuster of his life.

W.

batemanb 08-18-2008 06:30 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

William Prusner wrote: (Post 213807)
...... And furthermore, I'd probably shell out the 10 bucks to see it if the Evil Empire of Hollywood saw fit to pump out a multi-million dollar blockbuster of his life......W.

Not Hollywood, nor blockbuster, but you can start with this one

http://store.edaymovie.com/cda92039.html

MM 08-18-2008 07:28 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

William Hazen wrote: (Post 213802)
Why? I think you watched this before you had your morning meditation and coffee Seriously.

William Hazen

Compare and contrast (Not for skill level, but just in how the body is being held) the original posted video with the two below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6R2c9e7hAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE5jN0rqMtM

Note how both Shioda and Tohei hold their body forward. By that, I mean that they don't open either hip out to the side, no matter where uke touches them. Head centered on the body, whole body pointing forward. Matsuoka opens his hips outward quite often.

I think Shioda is the easiest to see how all the greats held themselves. Relook at the videos. They all held their bodies in a similar fashion. Almost as if they were always pointed straight ahead, no matter where uke touched them. And when they moved, they still seemed to be looking straight ahead. Look at Shioda's ken clip, his hips always remain straight forward. They never open out to the side like Matsuoka does.

Just one noted difference.

Mark

stan baker 08-18-2008 08:16 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Shioda had internal power and good aiki skills, Matsuoka sensei on the other hand, I will just leave it there. People need to experience high level internal, hands on, then it will become clear.

stan

SeiserL 08-18-2008 08:17 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
IMHO, it is easy to criticize anything from a spectator position, especially if you don't have personal experience with that individual. I often think that Aikido is not a spectator sport in that you have great difficulty seeing the effectiveness that can only be felt. This has been my experience with many internal of Aiki art.

It is very courageous to put yourself out there for public opinion.

Having personally experienced Matsuoka Sensei, I hold his technique, his teaching, and his video as excellent.

Allen Beebe 08-18-2008 08:40 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
They both seem to hold their body perpendicularly allowing their lower body to source power from the ground (not relying on friction but sourcing power as directly as possible up and down), hips (belly button) facing toward the delivery of force (Yoshinkan-like stance pretty much demands this), and with Shioda in particular (he's skinnier so it's easier to see) he seems to maintain a hsing-i like forward bow in his spine and across his shoulders. Shioda's weight drops appear to be both smaller and more focused (targeted).

Tohei is visibly relaxed. When I observe Shioda's atemi it is pretty clear that he is relaxed as well. One could profitably compare the old footage of Tomiki as well I think.

Fred Little 08-18-2008 10:38 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 213827)
Compare and contrast (Not for skill level, but just in how the body is being held) the original posted video with the two below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6R2c9e7hAc

Mark

Hiya Mark:

Whatever else one might say about the Shioda clip, I think that the greater portion of Dan's original post on this thread is quite applicable to the "weapons work" on display in it:

Quote:

It displays such a profound lack of understanding of weapons that after the students picked them up -class should have begun with a few years worth of corrections. This is a good demonstration of why most every Koryu art dismisses Aikido's use of weapons. It is foundationally flawed in it approach.
Since Shioda (as we have been told many, many times) trained in Daito Ryu, was licensed in Daito Ryu, developed his fundamental skills in Daito Ryu, and is widely touted as an exemplar of the internal skills that are found in Daito Ryu, one might wonder if we should take the clip as compelling evidence that we should "dismiss (Daito Ryu)'s use of weapons" and regard it as 'foundationally flawed it its approach."

Hmmmmm....

YMMV.

Beard of Chuck Norris 08-18-2008 10:54 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Not got anything like the film critics to say about it... i thought it was pretty rad.

As far as these things go that is.

Aikibu 08-18-2008 10:58 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Fred Little wrote: (Post 213848)
Hiya Mark:

Whatever else one might say about the Shioda clip, I think that the greater portion of Dan's original post on this thread is quite applicable to the "weapons work" on display in it:

Since Shioda (as we have been told many, many times) trained in Daito Ryu, was licensed in Daito Ryu, developed his fundamental skills in Daito Ryu, and is widely touted as an exemplar of the internal skills that are found in Daito Ryu, one might wonder if we should take the clip as compelling evidence that we should "dismiss (Daito Ryu)'s use of weapons" and regard it as 'foundationally flawed it its approach."

Hmmmmm....

YMMV.

Hmmmmmmmmmm Indeed....LOL

William Hazen

Aikibu 08-18-2008 11:01 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 213827)
Compare and contrast (Not for skill level, but just in how the body is being held) the original posted video with the two below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6R2c9e7hAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE5jN0rqMtM

Note how both Shioda and Tohei hold their body forward. By that, I mean that they don't open either hip out to the side, no matter where uke touches them. Head centered on the body, whole body pointing forward. Matsuoka opens his hips outward quite often.

I think Shioda is the easiest to see how all the greats held themselves. Relook at the videos. They all held their bodies in a similar fashion. Almost as if they were always pointed straight ahead, no matter where uke touched them. And when they moved, they still seemed to be looking straight ahead. Look at Shioda's ken clip, his hips always remain straight forward. They never open out to the side like Matsuoka does.

Just one noted difference.

Mark

Thanks for pointing that out Mark. Do you practice or teach with weapons? :)

William Hazen

MM 08-18-2008 11:11 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Fred Little wrote: (Post 213848)
Hiya Mark:

Whatever else one might say about the Shioda clip, I think that the greater portion of Dan's original post on this thread is quite applicable to the "weapons work" on display in it:

Since Shioda (as we have been told many, many times) trained in Daito Ryu, was licensed in Daito Ryu, developed his fundamental skills in Daito Ryu, and is widely touted as an exemplar of the internal skills that are found in Daito Ryu, one might wonder if we should take the clip as compelling evidence that we should "dismiss (Daito Ryu)'s use of weapons" and regard it as 'foundationally flawed it its approach."

Hmmmmm....

YMMV.

Hi Fred!

Well, Shioda was certainly "tainted" or "corrupted" by Ueshiba. So, I wouldn't go so far as to flaw Daito ryu all by itself. ;) I mean, Ueshiba has to have at least 50% of the blame.

MM 08-18-2008 11:15 AM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

William Hazen wrote: (Post 213851)
Thanks for pointing that out Mark. Do you practice or teach with weapons? :)

William Hazen

William,

My post was directed towards how the body was held and of the distinct differences between the people listed. I certainly don't have near the experience to compete with Fred or Dan in the area of sword work.

That being said, I do currently practice with weapons. Just not sword. But I am finding that the weapons work I'm practicing is definitely a notch or two above aikido weapons work. :) IMO, of course.

Mark

Fred Little 08-18-2008 12:36 PM

Re: Aikido "Action Cut" Video with Matsuoka Sensei
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 213854)
Hi Fred!

Well, Shioda was certainly "tainted" or "corrupted" by Ueshiba. So, I wouldn't go so far as to flaw Daito ryu all by itself. ;) I mean, Ueshiba has to have at least 50% of the blame.

Mark --

Maybe....but I don't think so. A review of available Youtube footage would actually turn up examples of egregious errors in basic sword technique in public demonstrations and instructional videos from virtually every extant line of DRAJJ. The most common error is a total lack of regard for appropriate combative ma-ai; the second most common error is a failure to bring the weapon to bear before entering with the body.

In another respect, my observation (or rather, my extension of Dan's observation) is neither here nor there with regard to the development of basic body organization. (And if the law says "put down the sword," and a judge tells the reviver of DRAJJ "put down the sword" then the way in which the 'it" of DRAJJ and good swordwork got separated is really not much of a mystery, now is it?)

But a generation or two later, a choreographed video that is clearly labeled as a choreographed video, made by an instructor who has worked as a stunt double doesn't really give me the same kind of heebie-jeebies as a demonstration that doesn't rise to anywhere near the same level of truth-in-packaging.

My judgement is tainted by having had the pleasure of training with Matsuoka Sensei on several different occasions in seminar situations. The seriousness with which he trained was apparent. He also trained hard, clean and fair, with a sense of humor and humility.

Sports fans build dream teams. Sometimes I muse about dream aikido seminars. If I could have anybody I know on the same mat at the same time -- not necessarily as teachers, mind you, but training on the same mat -- who would I choose?

Matsuoka is one of the very first names that comes to mind among contemporary aikido teachers.

If a flashy video clip (with a heavy dose of chambara choreography) brings him a few more students, that's probably a good thing. Those attracted by the flash won't last long anyway.

Best,

Fred


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