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-   -   "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14877)

gromph 07-25-2008 10:13 PM

Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?
 
Great discussions, my favorite thread hands down :)

Check out the aiki skills of these Russian guys:

http://ca.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=budovan

(sorry my youtube defaults to the Canadian version, the user's name is budovan, if that link doesn't work).

Dan,

Is that what your aiki skills look like when applied???

Cheers,

Mike Preradovic

DH 07-31-2008 01:52 PM

Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?
 
Quote:

Mike Preradovic wrote: (Post 212229)
Great discussions, my favorite thread hands down :)

Check out the aiki skills of these Russian guys:

http://ca.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=budovan

(sorry my youtube defaults to the Canadian version, the user's name is budovan, if that link doesn't work).

Dan,

Is that what your aiki skills look like when applied???

Cheers,

Mike Preradovic

Mike I have been away training and got back and have been training.and missed the whole thread.

If you mean like this-then no.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tPWTJrYyWsY

I can do aiki waza and wrist grabs like the DR and aikido stuff and have done so with students in those arts to demonstrate what their teachers are doing. It just doesn't interest me. It ties in with all the joint locks and pretzel logic of improbable jujutsu as well. I have waza coming out my ears. I just could care less about most of it.
My idea of aiki is throwing someone upside down on their head, or back, or take their legs out and land on them and choke them out while they are trying to throw me.
Or have someone keep trying to single leg or throw me and counter them while not doing much to move and dump them and start the above all over again. Or do stand up PK with aiki blasting through their arms as they try to punch me, or let them hit my trunk and keep going. Punching through a punch or punching through a defense.
I don't have much interest or patience in ukemi and preconditioning people to take technique or ukemi from me or each other. In fact I think it's stupid and expresses a lower level of training in the martial arts. Learning to fall down should be learning to take someone with you or take their legs out when you land. Learning to throw someone should involve beating the crap out of them as you do so. This can de done safely and with fun. Its just a different dynamic than aiki waza and "taking ukemi."
I train people who come here how not to be thrown, not how to fall down, how to stand there and stare at someone trying to lock them. So you learn a lock, and how they can be stopped easily. Then how to do a lock with aiki that is much more applicable. As an example doing Yonkyo or nikkyo on someone who has trained with me for even a short while is simply a wasted effort. So there is a whole different emphasis in what I do than most of what I have seen or been shown. It is very difficult to discuss Aiki with me without discussind aiki as anti-aiki as well. With most folks they see it as blending movement. My thoughts are almost completely out of sync with where they are coming from and trying to accomplish in their training, so there is a cognitive disconnect from the start.
Naturally we all have opinions based on our own understanding and training.

All that said, I can also train in thee most standard, Kata based rote scenario you care to imagine, or in body conditioning aiki training. It's a choice. So to answer you in a different way-aiki skills in application do not "look like" anything. They are in everything- as you choose to use them. Why? It is your body that has changed, not waza. Once your body conditioning is in place, then you change.
Think of it like this
1. Internal power
2. Internal power in use=internal skills
3. Internal skills create waza

That waza
3.Is external. That is based off of
2 Which is the applicable use of
1. which is your changed body
So what you do with it is up to you. You can make it work in anything you want to train in.

DonMagee 07-31-2008 02:07 PM

Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?
 
I'm sorry I can not go with you on not teaching ukemi. I have started a few students into judo without teaching any ukemi. It was NOT pretty.

Learning how to fall safely is a very important skill that is required if you are going to be throw. Sure you should not be taught to 'go with it' but if you do not know how to fall and get throw by a good judoka you are not getting up. I've seen badly hurt necks, knees, backs, arms, wrists, etc from guys who could of been spared if only they learned a simple break fall.

DH 07-31-2008 02:16 PM

Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?
 
For about the ten thousandth time I am not saying that I don't teach ukemi. I do. It just isn't the same idea.
I just watched a series of throws done by Randi. Never once did his opponent "take ukemi" but they all got thrown.
AND NO ONE GOT HURT DOING SO.
Attacking, and continuing to do so in a throw changes the body dynamic, it is also more protective.
Then again I'm not your teacher nor trying to convince you of anything, so have fun and stay safe.

mathewjgano 07-31-2008 03:07 PM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

I don't have much interest or patience in ukemi and preconditioning people to take technique or ukemi from me or each other. In fact I think it's stupid and expresses a lower level of training in the martial arts.
Maybe that ten thousandth time had something to do with your phrasing. Taken by itself I also would have thought you were saying ukemi is stupid. From reading your posts I've read a huge emphasis on not falling so it doesn't necessarily seem like such a huge leap.

DH 07-31-2008 05:01 PM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Mathew
there are several threads where it is discussed in depth. There is a difference between knowing how to fall, and being preconditioned TOO fall.
Secondly, and you will see this everywhere in videos, men attack, and their body dynamic changes to a receiving mode-to take ukemi.
It is a very different dynamic in the body to continue the attack AS YOU FALL.
As a separate issue, but consistent with the topic at hand, is how to teach someone to be extremely throw resistent (internal power or aiki) so as to not fall and increase the ability to counter throw. This increases the ability of a martial artist within a given style to manage himself with far more integrity of his space.
It just happens to wreck allot of teaching styles.
Does that make more sense?

gromph 07-31-2008 06:43 PM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Thank you Dan.

What you are talking about is really blowing me away...

I know that you do not publicly talk about your training methods, and unfortunately those of with careers/families/limited vacation etc will probably never get a chance to train with you even though it seems like you are quite open with your teaching (unless I am mistaken) if one can actually make it to see you!

What I am trying to say??

Is there any pointers you can give to the rest of us (without giving away your teaching/secrets etc)...

From what I seem to be able to gleam is that your aiki training is transforming the insides of your body to use "different" muscles - i.e. fascia etc and also that you are creating NEW power pathways throughout your body??

I recently switched from a harder style of aikido to ki aikido because quite simply I am old now and my body is trashed! I do find the ki training interesting, and although I can have people push/pull me etc I don't think that's even in the same universe as the stuff you are doing (especially from the descriptions you give).

In fact Mike Sigman talks about this on his aikido journal articles. (I believe his point is that these ki skills are a start and are actually quite basic in themselves):

http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=4634

and

http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=3831

This is the statement that I find of interest:

"When the sourcing is arranged properly, the body will surprising conform to help convey the forces according to the new sources, but only up to the level to which the body is conditioned. In other words, a person can use kokyu power correctly only up to the level the body has conditioned to sustain the new arrangement of patterning; if too heavy a load is put on an unprepared body, the new patterning breaks down to some extent and the normal muscles (like shoulder, arm, etc.) kick in and the training becomes diluted."

How does one "break through" that point WITHOUT being diluted??

Ok, so someone can push on you and you are ok, now they run at you and hit you - you crumble! How do you get BEYOND that crumpling? Is it physical (training new muscles) or is it mental training???

Do you ever travel and teach seminars??

Cheers,

Mike

mathewjgano 08-01-2008 10:52 PM

ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 212621)
Mathew
there are several threads where it is discussed in depth. There is a difference between knowing how to fall, and being preconditioned TOO fall.

Hi Dan,
I was just saying I could see why Don said what he did. I know that taken into the fuller context of other threads you're not saying don't do/teach ukemi.

Quote:

Secondly, and you will see this everywhere in videos, men attack, and their body dynamic changes to a receiving mode-to take ukemi.
It is a very different dynamic in the body to continue the attack AS YOU FALL.
Would you say the uke is ceasing to reach for nage's center in these cases (i.e. the switching to receiving mode cases)?

Quote:

As a separate issue, but consistent with the topic at hand, is how to teach someone to be extremely throw resistent (internal power or aiki) so as to not fall and increase the ability to counter throw. This increases the ability of a martial artist within a given style to manage himself with far more integrity of his space.
It just happens to wreck allot of teaching styles.
Does that make more sense?
That makes sense, i was just mentioning that part as an example of why Don might have made the assumption he did. Do you view the throw resistance you described as being more a product of being grounded/"immoveable" or of being able to "roll with the punches," as it were? Or is it a fusion of the two?

MM 08-02-2008 09:07 AM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Mike Preradovic wrote: (Post 212627)
Is there any pointers you can give to the rest of us (without giving away your teaching/secrets etc)...

From what I seem to be able to gleam is that your aiki training is transforming the insides of your body to use "different" muscles - i.e. fascia etc and also that you are creating NEW power pathways throughout your body??

Hi Mike,

I'm not Dan, but I thought I'd give you my thoughts. Hope they help. And yes, I think you have a good idea of what's happening.

Quote:

Mike Preradovic wrote: (Post 212627)
I recently switched from a harder style of aikido to ki aikido because quite simply I am old now and my body is trashed! I do find the ki training interesting, and although I can have people push/pull me etc I don't think that's even in the same universe as the stuff you are doing (especially from the descriptions you give).

No, I have found that it isn't in the same universe. :)

Speaking of push and pull -- how hard do they push and pull? Are they using a small push or are they really pushing hard, trying to move you or tip you over? Are you in a natural posture with feet side by side? Or in a hanmi of sorts with one leg back? There are all sorts of different ways of pushing/pulling.

Quote:

Mike Preradovic wrote: (Post 212627)
In fact Mike Sigman talks about this on his aikido journal articles. (I believe his point is that these ki skills are a start and are actually quite basic in themselves):

From my view, saying the ki skills are a start is okay. It's more like dipping your toe in the water and saying I have a start on learning how to swim. :)

Quote:

Mike Preradovic wrote: (Post 212627)
This is the statement that I find of interest:

"When the sourcing is arranged properly, the body will surprising conform to help convey the forces according to the new sources, but only up to the level to which the body is conditioned. In other words, a person can use kokyu power correctly only up to the level the body has conditioned to sustain the new arrangement of patterning; if too heavy a load is put on an unprepared body, the new patterning breaks down to some extent and the normal muscles (like shoulder, arm, etc.) kick in and the training becomes diluted."

I've found that to be very, very true.

Quote:

Mike Preradovic wrote: (Post 212627)
How does one "break through" that point WITHOUT being diluted??

Ok, so someone can push on you and you are ok, now they run at you and hit you - you crumble! How do you get BEYOND that crumpling? Is it physical (training new muscles) or is it mental training???

Try this:

Stand in a natural stance, feet side by side, shoulder width apart. Then, put your arms straight out to your sides, palms facing out, fingers up. Have someone push (start with a light push) on your outstretched right palm. Since your arm is straight, it's going to be a straight push directly into your shoulders. What you have to do is to take the energy that's coming in from that push and let it go through your arm, your shoulder, down your spine, down your left leg (opposite leg) and into the ground.

To illustrate some different feelings, have the person pushing give you a decent push (not too light but not strong enough to cause you to strain). Then, you tighten all your muscles in your arm and shoulder. Feel and see what happens. Go back to a decent push and "relax completely". I mean really relax your arm and shoulders to the point of jelly. In the tense muscle example, you should have felt top heavy and been pushed over. In the relaxed example, your arm should have crumpled into your side. So, if you find that on a harder push, your arm is bending, then you're being too relaxed and if you're feeling top heavy and being pushed over, you're muscles are too taut. Picture the energy going through your bones from palm to ground.

If you're good with a light push, have the person start slowly adding more force to their push. Can you withstand a full force push? Either starting slowly and building up to it -- or just directly.

(If you can do that, either way, then, using the example above, I picture that as having taken off your shoes and socks and just thought about putting your toe in the water to test the temperature before you get in the water and start learning to swim. :) )

Once you have that pathway built in, you start working it more and more with stronger forces and from different angles. The hardest one I've found so far is standing in a natural stance and having someone push on your chest.

Mark

MM 08-02-2008 09:20 AM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Matthew Gano wrote: (Post 212723)
That makes sense, i was just mentioning that part as an example of why Don might have made the assumption he did. Do you view the throw resistance you described as being more a product of being grounded/"immoveable" or of being able to "roll with the punches," as it were? Or is it a fusion of the two?

Hi Matthew,

Here's my thoughts ...

"Grounded" and "resistant" seem to be terms that are taken various ways.

The "grounded" I'm working on is like this:

Instead of my body offering any resistance (remember Ueshiba's no resistance thing?) to someone trying to throw me, I have a pathway set up in my body that takes the incoming force and allows it to go to the ground -- no matter what position or placement my body is in. The person trying to throw feels like they are actually pushing the ground. No matter where I move or how I move, I have no internal resistance to the force coming in. It goes to ground.

"Grounded" to me does not mean "planted" or "immovable". Ever.

The "resistant" I'm working on is to not be easily thrown or my center captured. Even when I bring the ground back out and into the person, I am still not using resistance.

"Resistant" to me does not mean fighting or using muscle. On the flip side being "non resistant" does not mean tenkan out of the way of an attack.

Mark

Upyu 08-03-2008 12:40 AM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 212739)
Hi Matthew,

Here's my thoughts ...

"Grounded" and "resistant" seem to be terms that are taken various ways.

The "grounded" I'm working on is like this:

Instead of my body offering any resistance (remember Ueshiba's no resistance thing?) to someone trying to throw me, I have a pathway set up in my body that takes the incoming force and allows it to go to the ground -- no matter what position or placement my body is in. The person trying to throw feels like they are actually pushing the ground. No matter where I move or how I move, I have no internal resistance to the force coming in. It goes to ground.

"Grounded" to me does not mean "planted" or "immovable". Ever.

The "resistant" I'm working on is to not be easily thrown or my center captured. Even when I bring the ground back out and into the person, I am still not using resistance.

"Resistant" to me does not mean fighting or using muscle. On the flip side being "non resistant" does not mean tenkan out of the way of an attack.

Mark

I think this is a good, basic example of what it means to be "grounded" without being simply planted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMw_Jtn3Avc

Ignore the craptastic knife defense at the end though :p

edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aS6B...eature=related
2:09 has some good stuff in it as well

Upyu 08-03-2008 12:50 AM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Mike Preradovic wrote: (Post 212627)
How does one "break through" that point WITHOUT being diluted??

Ok, so someone can push on you and you are ok, now they run at you and hit you - you crumble! How do you get BEYOND that crumpling? Is it physical (training new muscles) or is it mental training???

I'm not Dan, but this question is pretty easy to answer.
I think Mike would answer it, but I think he's been placed on sabbatical :D

It's physical training, ie, you have to condition your body, certain muscles, tissue etc need to be able to take the loads if they are to be used in that manner. Like was mentioned in the article, if it can't sustain the load, it'll switch back to older patterned usage of muscles.

Part of it is mental training: Ishiki/Yi/I/intent, but should be trained alongside the conditioning. The use of mental intent should go hand in hand with the physical and be developed as a result. You need someone to show you clearly how to do this.
It's nothing mystical, btw, simply a skill most people don't really use or practice.

In a nutshell, do the above repeatedly(in whatever training method that floats your boat, sword cutting, spear thrusting, solo exercises from various Chinese,JP arts etc) all the while increasing the amount of loads you can take, and the complexity with which you manipulate the body.
There's a reason there's often a progression to learning this stuff. You can't simply copy the shape of some form and expect to do the more complicated stuff, simply because the physical components in the body, not to mention the mental skills required to manipulate them are inadequate.

Erick Mead 08-03-2008 09:40 AM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Robert John wrote: (Post 212756)
I think this is a good, basic example of what it means to be "grounded" without being simply planted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMw_Jtn3Avc

Ignore the craptastic knife defense at the end though :p

edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aS6B...eature=related
2:09 has some good stuff in it as well

See, this is an example of the misleading nature of your terminology -- specifically, "ground." (I don't mean you personally, but the conceptual image is disconnected from the reality.)

Mifune can in no way be using "ground" when he is literally disconnected from it. It is not just gravity, either. He is plainly using active control of his momentum and the moment of his body, in one case curling the leg under to allow a counter-moment on the top of the throw, and in another arcing his legs actively back and up to increase counter moment in the throw, and create shear at the connection.

Ain't no ground. What you mean as "ground" is defining a moment or angular momentum in relation to it -- but that is merely a convenient reference -- not the active principle in the action. It's like saying that lift is generated by a speed with a certain angle with respect to the plane of the "ground." In many cases it is so, but that reference is violated when updrafts or downdrafts are present, and if using a pure ground reference you can easily stall and fall out of the sky. Attitude with respect to the ground may be convenient in most cases, but it is a phlogiston theory, and leads to errors of its own -- the image of "planting" being one of them.

Erick Mead 08-03-2008 09:43 AM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 212739)
On the flip side being "non resistant" does not mean tenkan out of the way of an attack.

That's why it is "irimi-tenkan" -- tenkan INTO the attack.

Cady Goldfield 08-03-2008 12:57 PM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Erick Mead wrote: (Post 212772)
Mifune can in no way be using "ground" when he is literally disconnected from it.

I wouldn't say that it's a given that there would be a disconnect when a person is off the ground. An adept may be "disconnected" from the ground in the sense that his feet are not in physical contact with it, when lifted up by his opponent, but he can still be connected to the ground -through- his opponent.

Demetrio Cereijo 08-03-2008 05:15 PM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Robert John wrote: (Post 212756)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aS6B...eature=related
2:09 has some good stuff in it as well

And the fun starts at 5:55.

eyrie 08-03-2008 06:25 PM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Somewhere I have a video clip of Don Angier explaining how this works. Suffice to say, rotational dynamics is not the answer to everything... 42 is. :p

Upyu 08-03-2008 06:36 PM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Erick Mead wrote: (Post 212772)
See, this is an example of the misleading nature of your terminology -- specifically, "ground." (I don't mean you personally, but the conceptual image is disconnected from the reality.)

Mifune can in no way be using "ground" when he is literally disconnected from it. It is not just gravity, either. He is plainly using active control of his momentum and the moment of his body, in one case curling the leg under to allow a counter-moment on the top of the throw, and in another arcing his legs actively back and up to increase counter moment in the throw, and create shear at the connection.

Misleading? Not really, at least not to anyone that can actually do this stuff Erick.
But then again I don't know anyone that's met you and vouched that you can do any of these things anyways :D

Maybe you can come up with a step by step instructional vid explaining in your own terms of momentum circular omega force dysfunctional vectors, how "grounds" a push on one leg, and how that skill translates into helping with throws etc ;)

mathewjgano 08-03-2008 10:14 PM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Ignatius Teo wrote: (Post 212793)
Somewhere I have a video clip of Don Angier explaining how this works. Suffice to say, rotational dynamics is not the answer to everything... 42 is. :p

I hate to do this, but you're incorrect.
42 is not the answer to everything...only the Ultimate Question of Life. Who knew that question was, "what is the perfect number of jelly beans one should consume in any given sitting?"

eyrie 08-03-2008 10:23 PM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
The answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything is... 42

And it was meant as a joke... and apparently so did Adams. :)

mathewjgano 08-03-2008 10:27 PM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Robert John wrote: (Post 212795)
Misleading? Not really, at least not to anyone that can actually do this stuff Erick.
But then again I don't know anyone that's met you and vouched that you can do any of these things anyways :D

Isn't that a bit beside the point Erick is trying to make? One of the criticisms on Aikido's means of teaching aiki is the idea that the language is too subjective, right? Of course any term used among a group of people who can do something is obviously going to be understood by those who can do it in that group...whether it's the "Earthly ki of the kami" or "grounding" or whatever. I'm not knocking the term. It makes sense to me enough that I think I can use it meaningfully, but you didn't really seem to do much here but offer an ad hominem.:p

mathewjgano 08-03-2008 10:30 PM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Ignatius Teo wrote: (Post 212809)
The answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything is... 42

And it was meant as a joke... and apparently so did Adams. :)

Of course it was a joke...so was my reply...poorly made though it seem to be.

DH 08-03-2008 11:36 PM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Matthew Gano wrote: (Post 212811)
Isn't that a bit beside the point Erick is trying to make? ... you didn't really seem to do much here but offer an ad hominem.:p

Actually it is spot on. Rob wasn't attacking Eric, he wasn't questioning his understanding of the potential terms- he was questioning his knowledge of the skills in the first place to even have a discussion of terms. If you don't know the skills- what's the point in defining your terms? Particularly in agonizingly long posts?

Some people really care about folks being led astray like most of us were for years. I think that was either due to ignorance of our teachers (on a grand scale) intentional holding back and screwing with us, and / or just plain poor teaching ability. More and more, it seems people are thinking-most of use have simply missed what we were supposed to be doing and discussing in the arts.
Rob was pointing out that men who entered into the discussion to talk about how to get it have been vetted. They have been tested, compared, and those training this way all agree it is different and shares many common themes.
I hate to see people come on who cannot do these things with measurable results, and more importantly do not have a record of proving they can teach it to people with measurable results being given any sort of support.
Why? I care more about honest hard working students who are trusting they are getting useful information, so they avoid so much wasted time.
I was recently with a friend and we were discussing time and distance in training. Most people travel to get this stuff. They really need accurate models and hands on tune-ups to stay on track and not waste so much time. That hurts and it's painful to have to realize you just wasted so much time. The last thing you need is naysayers who can't do, laying out detailed information on...how to fail like them.
That isn't harsh. It's kind. Fortunately, as the network grows of people who are now training in aiki-they run into those who offer mis-information here. They are increasingly getting checked out, and self selected out of the discussion for lack of any real abilities.
You will go farther in budo checking behind the scenes than you ever will "on air."

Erick Mead 08-04-2008 12:01 AM

Re: ukemi of the Russian Video Clips
 
Quote:

Cady Goldfield wrote: (Post 212778)
I wouldn't say that it's a given that there would be a disconnect when a person is off the ground. An adept may be "disconnected" from the ground in the sense that his feet are not in physical contact with it, when lifted up by his opponent, but he can still be connected to the ground -through- his opponent.

I didn't say it was wrong -- I said it was misleading (not intentionally so) and calling something "ground" when you are out of contact with it is no simplification. It is obfuscation.
Quote:

Matthew Gano wrote:
Any term used among a group of people who can do something is obviously going to be understood by those who can do it in that group...whether it's the "Earthly ki of the kami" or "grounding" or whatever. I'm not knocking the term. It makes sense to me enough that I think I can use it meaningfully, but you didn't really seem to do much here but offer an ad hominem

It's OK. One day they'll tire of it - and they can swing wildly for all I care until they actually engage or connect which they are not doing either in the aikido or boxing sense. :)
Quote:

Robert John wrote:
...video clip of Don Angier explaining how this works. Suffice to say, rotational dynamics is not the answer to everything... 42 is.

You forgot to add "life, the universe {and everything]." And pace the reference to our dear departed Dougie A. -- and for the love of vogonity, we can all wax teary-eyed at paeans to the Great Green Arkle-Seizure for all I care -- but it need not be so flipping arcane or so afeared of a little basic physical analysis. The necessary adjunct of kata is bunkai. Being intentionally esoteric, (which the consistent ad hom is part of, BTW) is not useful to advance learning -- transparency is. Western learning is not esoteric. You've taken the work that Ark has done a good way down that road in your depictions and descriptions of what eh does and how he does it, and it's a credit to you. Don't stop. Take it the rest of the way, and break it down -- bunkai

If Don Angier teaches that in-yo ho is a ncessary aspect of aiki, then there is no escaping rotational dynamics. That concept and the math that goes with it defines cyclic alternation of negative and positive phase. When I feel the ground with my own feet I push the ground and the ground pushes back. In-yo. So, to sense anything by touch, sight or hearing there must be both positive and negative action, alternating. While you may choose to ignore it, it is inescapably true, and that straightforward observation has things to teach.

And what might we call this positive-negative thing connecting Mifune to the ground through his opponent? What is it that throwing his legs up and out or under and across manipulates ? What is transferred when you shift weight from one hip to the other? As O Sensei said : "In Aikido you must understand every phenomenon in the universe. For example, the rotation of the Earth and the most intricate and far-reaching system of the universe. " To your way of thinking that statement gets sent down as so much religious mumbo jumbo. To my approach that is a perfectly good attribution of things that the SAME physical laws also describe.

Come on. It has a name. You can say it... :)

Here, fill in the blanks: ang ___ar mom___um

eyrie 08-04-2008 12:33 AM

Re: "Aiki" in Russian Video Clips
 
Erick, I believe you've misattributed a quote by me as coming from Rob.

As far as what Don Angier does or doesn't teach, I'm in no position to comment or presume. I did not intend to drag Don's name into this, only to point out that the explanation he provided on that particular video clip is precisely what Cady said, and has nothing to do with rotational dynamics - at least not in the way he explained it.

BTW, I didn't "forget" anything... I figured fandom would get the gist without my being superfluous. ;)


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