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-   -   Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14775)

Mark Uttech 07-10-2008 03:52 PM

Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Onegaishimasu. I would be interested in knowing how many of you consider the goal of aikido to reach another plane early enough in your lifetime that you can explore it. If you have this goal, how far into your practice did this goal first appear?

In gassho,

Mark

Kevin Leavitt 07-10-2008 04:12 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
no, there is enough on this one for me to explore.

Be here, Now! That is what it is about for me, and what aikido allows me to explore. You can't be sucessful in aiki if you are not fully focused on the now!

Gernot Hassenpflug 07-10-2008 05:25 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
I think I'll subscribe to the idea that bujutsu (and budo I suppose, or other kinds of "shugyo") practice elevate one to another plane. Depending on how you wish to define that once you've arrived! Certainly, the fact that a great many previously cherished notions, thought-patterns and world-views are going to have to be discarded is enough to change the person practicing quite substantially.

Joe McParland 07-10-2008 06:32 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Ichi-go Ichi-e.

Mark Uttech 07-10-2008 07:35 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Quote:

Kevin Leavitt wrote: (Post 210791)
no, there is enough on this one for me to explore.

Be here, Now! That is what it is about for me, and what aikido allows me to explore. You can't be sucessful in aiki if you are not fully focused on the now!

But surely don't you think there are other planes here now?

In gassho,

Mark

Joe McParland 07-10-2008 08:11 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Quote:

Mark Uttech wrote: (Post 210799)
But surely don't you think there are other planes here now?

Sure there are! For instance, there is the plane where the attacker is thinking about maybe attacking this way instead of that way this time, and the person with whom you are practicing is thinking about handling your attack from another plane!

A good, sincere attack often brings attacker and defender to the same point. All of those planes intersect when the kiai shakes you and the bokken whistles toward the forehead. ;)

Kevin Leavitt 07-10-2008 10:06 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Not sure I guess what you mean by planes. Paradigms...new ones...new perspectives....enlightment...yes. Our eyes can certainly be opened to new things that we never before knew of or considered.

Removing delusion...yes most definitely.

However, if you are looking ahead or behind, you will not fully recognize or embrace the plane that you are in and the experiences you are experiencing now.

So to me, the most important one, philosophicallly speaking, is the one you are in.

Josh Reyer 07-10-2008 11:05 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Not for me, anyway. I hate airports.

boyana 07-12-2008 05:18 AM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
I do not know!I am OK ,sort of happy person !

dps 07-12-2008 06:03 AM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Another plane? I have not finished with this one yet. I am still learning how to walk?

David

Peter Goldsbury 07-12-2008 08:07 AM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Quote:

Mark Uttech wrote: (Post 210789)
Onegaishimasu. I would be interested in knowing how many of you consider the goal of aikido to reach another plane early enough in your lifetime that you can explore it. If you have this goal, how far into your practice did this goal first appear?

In gassho,

Mark

Mark,

What do you actually mean here? I think that this is one example of the huge problem of vocabulary and communication that bedevils Aikiweb and other forums. I hate to say this, but you sound like a budding Onisaburo Deguchi, about to depart on a major tour of the spirit world. Or have I misunderstood you?

I think some responses have already indicated the problem. Planes, trains or automobiles? When do we take off--more importantly, when do we land and where?

To give an example, Onisaburo Deguchi believed that he was the incarnation of a certain deity and that he had a divine mission to set the world to rights: not just one world, but three. Morihei Ueshiba, also, thought that he was the incarnation of the same deity, but also of several others, and that he also had a divine mission to set the worlds to right. Like Deguchi, he must have been very hard to live with--and I think it shows in Kisshomaru's writings. For example, if you are his long-suffering wife, what do you serve such a reincarnation for breakfast? Of course, food of the gods! Well, sure.

I do not believe that I have any goal at all and I am stating this now, after nearly 40 years of training. If I had a goal, what would it be? To train and teach aikido in as intelligent and 'honest' a way as possible, but this does not go very far.

So, for example, my dojo has recently become independent (within the Milky Way that is the Aikikai). So in the near future, I plan to establish a training relationship with Akuzawa Sensei. Why? Because what he is doing is something I myself should have been doing years ago--I might well have been taught some of the elements, but I don't know (think of Rumsfeld's discussions of known knowns, known unknowns etc etc). I have to find out by having someone like Akuzawa Sensei, who is unaffected by politics, help me to reinvent the aikido wheel and see how much I do not need to reinvent. I think George Ledyard is doing this and also Hiroshi Ikeda, in their various ways.

So what aikido plane am I on? Honestly, I have no idea. If you are thinking about the development of 'internal' skills, well, there is an issue. My respect for Mike Sigman and Dan Harden has grown, in proportion to the quality of their discussions on Aikweb. But they both live in the USA and I live in Japan. Thus, it is so unlikely that I will ever be able to train with Mike or Dan that there is no possibility that I could ever see whether we are on the same plane. With Akuzawa Sensei, however, there is a real possibility, which I hope to explore over the next ten years or so.

So, over to you.

PAG

Kevin Leavitt 07-12-2008 08:31 AM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Peter,

Appreciate your post and your honesty. I agree with your assessment and like you I have grown in my respect for these guys over the past few months.

Suru 07-12-2008 01:31 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
I have reached higher planes while practicing Aikido, but correlation does not prove causation. As far as the ultimate plane, that cannot be reached alone; we would ALL have to be there together. Someone once said something along the lines of "As long as there is a man in prison, I am not free." There was more to this famous quote, but I don't recall its entirety.

Drew

Mark Uttech 07-12-2008 01:56 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
Onegaishimasu, I have to let everyone know that I never thought of becoming a budding Onisaburo Deguchi, and never thought to give that impression. I was simply responding to Jun's call for new thread topics. I admire what George Ledyard and Mary Heiny have accomplished in their own study, and have no doubts that certain planes exist. That said, I'll try to come up with a better thread topic next time.

In gassho,

Mark

Chris Parkerson 07-12-2008 04:00 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
mark,

Am I too late on this thread?
If you mean parallel universes, I think they are there and accessible, in meditation, in dreams, and soon perhaps via a machine.

See: Princeton/Harvard Physics Professor Lisa Randall "warped passages: unravelling the mysteries of the universe's hidden dimensions" (harper, NY,NY, 2005)

Different planes during practice? No, one mind in the here and now yet "moon over the water" (munenori)

Different stages of conscious/mental/spiritual development?
YES #1 - for instance moving from a mechanical to a fluid and finally a gaseous state in the practice of the art (Edmund Parker)
YES #2 - moving from a mindset of "death dealing sword" to a "life giving sword" to a "no sword" to a "no conflict" way. (munenori)

dalen7 07-12-2008 04:13 PM

Re: Is the Goal of Aikido to reach another plane?
 
It may be used as a tool for that end, but Im not sure people know how to read the code to get there.

Each person has that key which will open the door for them to walk through to another plane - for me it was Eckhart Tolle to make practical all the mumbo jumbo that is said about such things as reaching another plane. ;)

(not saying what your saying is mumbo jumbo.) :)

Peace

dAlen


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