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-   -   Chris Parkerson and Structure (from Kotegaeshi resistance thread) (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14771)

MM 07-10-2008 07:45 AM

Chris Parkerson and Structure (from Kotegaeshi resistance thread)
 
Quote:

Chris Parkerson wrote: (Post 210690)
With all due respect, I am pretty sure I can see the structure you guys are employing.

Chris, that's like watching a white belt in Aikido and saying, oh yeah, I can see what Aikido is. Seems kind of silly, don't you think? I am nowhere near a level to show good structure.

Quote:

Chris Parkerson wrote: (Post 210692)
I might make another point regarding mechanical advantage. I notice that uke has relaxed to the point that there is no real connection between his humerus/clavicle/scapula. If this connection is not made, you are just twisting his forearm like a "wet rag". Neither can you affect his COG without that connection. Often when the torque is applied to the 20+ bones in the wrist rather than on the radius and ulna, uke can remain disconnected. There is just a lot of play in the wrist.

And then you make posts like this and it's not what I understand structure to be.

Quote:

Chris Parkerson wrote: (Post 210690)
Here is a series of angles from an old tape of mine. Notice that my first angle assumes I screwed up, uke had retreated his arm as well as his COG, so I have to follow it. The rest of the angles are pretty much KG stuff.

(snip some stuff)

My uke is a 4th dan in Tomiki in the above video. He has some pretty darn good structure.

Um, well, no. I'd say that your uke in those videos was not displaying *any* kind of structure that we work on. 0%. Nothing. While he might have the kind of structure we work on (I don't know if he does or not), it was not shown on the video posted.

Please take a step back, discard any thoughts that you are doing the same stuff or know what we are doing and then look anew at things with the mental outlook that what we are working on is something completely different. Because from that one vid, my opinion is that your uke isn't showing anything of the structure that we're working on.

IMO,
Mark

MM 07-10-2008 07:54 AM

Re: Chris Parkerson and Structure (from Kotegaeshi resistance thread)
 
Quote:

Rob Liberti wrote: (Post 210696)
2 thumbs together is weaker than covering the thumb with the palm in my experience.

Chris, I agree with you that getting their center of gravity to move with you and the wrist is the way to go for real - and I posted the same sentiment myself. But what I'm confused about is why if you know some level of that kind of structure that you would be arguing leverage at all. Leverage isn't going to get their center of gravity moving with their wrist. You can draw them into your structure from the front or for the outstretched position you can do a "pure" weight transfer to break up their structure a bit and then draw them into your structure. And once that happens you'll have leverage on them, but focusing on the cart before the horse ain't gonna cut it.

Mark, not looking to pick on you, but the second video isn't selling it to me becuase it shows you dumping your center down your front a lot from seconds 9-16. Are you getting a lot of intention across your body to maintain resistance? I can't managae that very well unless I have my spine straighter.

Rob

I was just playing around with a few things. Didn't really want to cover kote gaeshi in all situations. :)

Plus, I lose structure a lot when trying this stuff in less than static training. So yeah, I'm working to keep structure while moving and having force applied in a dynamic way.

That is the very nature of why I paused/stopped/put on hold my aikido training. It's rough to try to keep structure when working on dynamic technique driven training. At least in the beginning. I couldn't have done anything like those two vids a year ago. I'd have lost structure instantly. So, things are progressing. I'm hoping that in another year, I can pursue active aikido training again while keeping structure in dynamic training. We'll see how that shapes up. :)

Mark

Chris Parkerson 07-10-2008 07:55 AM

Re: Chris Parkerson and Structure (from Kotegaeshi resistance thread)
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 210699)
Chris, that's like watching a white belt in Aikido and saying, oh yeah, I can see what Aikido is. Seems kind of silly, don't you think? I am nowhere near a level to show good structure.

And then you make posts like this and it's not what I understand structure to be.

Um, well, no. I'd say that your uke in those videos was not displaying *any* kind of structure that we work on. 0%. Nothing. While he might have the kind of structure we work on (I don't know if he does or not), it was not shown on the video posted.

Please take a step back, discard any thoughts that you are doing the same stuff or know what we are doing and then look anew at things with the mental outlook that what we are working on is something completely different. Because from that one vid, my opinion is that your uke isn't showing anything of the structure that we're working on.

IMO,
Mark

Sorry Mark, if you took offense. This is just aikido with short hands rather than extended ones. Moe (a Tomiki man) would call flamidamide aikido.

MM 07-10-2008 08:01 AM

Re: Chris Parkerson and Structure (from Kotegaeshi resistance thread)
 
Quote:

Chris Parkerson wrote: (Post 210703)
Sorry Mark, if you took offense. This is just aikido with short hands rather than extended ones. Moe (a Tomiki man) would call flamidamide aikido.

Hi Chris,

No, no offense at all. I just was trying to get you to view things from a different standpoint because when people think they're doing the same thing as another group, they tend to not look very thoroughly. And if they aren't doing the same thing, a lot of important stuff can be missed. As quite a few people who thought they were doing the same thing and found out that they weren't can attest to. :)

Short hands, extended hands ... doesn't matter if you have the structure we are working on.

Mark

Chris Parkerson 07-10-2008 08:10 AM

Re: Chris Parkerson and Structure (from Kotegaeshi resistance thread)
 
Rob,

I am not arguing leverage over structure. In fact, I suspect I can see a lot more than I am being given credit for. I am a real fan of structure. I, however, have to work with my own limitations in it. That's all.

If my techniques appear like someone is just being a trained seal (compliant uke), well these tapes were for another purpose and not made today for this one. The uke's are, however, cooperative until the last one. Yes, uke there is the level of shodan. His structure is less formidable.

But it is hard to discount the principles of mechanical advantage. They are just part of applied physics and could add to the "objective testing" of one's structure. Again, I meant no offense.


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