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-   -   Ki (as in 'The Force') (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14425)

Mario Gunter Frastas 05-07-2008 01:13 AM

Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Ki (as in "The Force")

It is relatively easy, so to speak, to explain how Aikido techniques work.
And it is also easy I suppose, to explain the philosophy that lies behind those techniques.
But even if someone would use his Ki power to walk through walls, people would still misunderstand what Ki is and how it works.
On top of it all, you have active Aikido practitioners who still don't get it, or when they do, they "confine" their Ki ability into their Dojo walls.
Meaning:
When you start controlling your Ki (which is the greatest start of all) you should improvise with it in your daily life and not keep it just for the "throw around people" routine.

A Martial Art that makes no prime use of Ki within its techniques looks like controlled violence.
A Martial Art (any Martial Art) that is based on Ki power looks like magic and I would like to explain why.
As I often say, Ki power is invisible to the eye but its effect is unbelievable to the eye!
People look at it and say "that just can't be happening" or at least say so until they join in…
Now imagine how it feels to the one applying it, or better don't, because it is beyond words and imagination. So, let's leave it at that.

There are detail explanations in "The Book In Between" about the use of Ki power, which are supported by a number of photos, and there is a Video demo two clicks to your left… but what's the use?
Still people, and I mean the majority of them, express their thoughts to me about their experience they once had by reading a book or books, lessons they took with a "guru", organizations of "enlightenment" they joined, "mind control" seminars they had, and much more of this than I care to remember!
And all this from the comfort of a chair or (believe it) while lying down on the floor.
Looks like I missed something a few decades ago, when I took it up to learn the Arts, and since then torture myself and my students with practice!
Now I know, I have finally seen the light, I should have stayed… lying down!

People who are interested in Ki power matters and everything that goes with it (and it's a lot!) are often more confused and lost than the ones that aren't interested in anything all together.
So, what do we do now?

If experience, ability and solid proof can't make it, what else can?
Maybe a fairytale can! So here you have it.

A long time ago in a galaxy far,
far away…

I don't know if we should thank George Lucas for his Star Wars or just go ahead and… sue him.
His concept of the Jedi Knights order, the peace warriors code, the training and use of the Force, is soooooooo much Aikido like!
The master-apprentice relation, the ability of insight, the light saber… ok that's enough let's sue this guy…
Maybe this fantasy is closer to any reality, at least any reality that can be explained and stop being misunderstood.

In this fantastic dialogue (that stands in the way just about every other day) after having explained for about two hours what Aikido is, comes the bomb question:
-So, you are into Zen and Karate (at this point making gestures and funny noises) and you eat only Sushi?
-No… (desperate) we are training ourselves into something that resembles more to the Jedi Knights.
-Oh! Do you "have" Dark Sith Lords too? (wicked smile)
-If you push it… you never know!

So, by fairytale or not, what is Ki after all, and how can we approach it?

…you must unlearn what you have learned…
Life creates it, makes it grow
Its energy surrounds us and binds us
You must feel the Force around you
Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere
Yoda
(from the motion picture The Empire Strikes Back)

(This text first appeared on MarioAikiBook.com, January 18, 2006)

bkedelen 05-07-2008 10:31 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
I will not touch the relationship between Aiki and the Force, but I would like to point out that the ideas in Star Wars were not those of Lucas, but instead those of Joseph Campbell.What Lucas has done with the original vision of Star Wars is shameful, and he has not produced anything even remotely as inspirational as the original trilogy since Campbell passed away.

One more thing, for any young people out there who are interested in starting to walk the thread of the hero path, track down copies of The Power of Myth and The Hero With a Thousand Faces.

reisler 05-07-2008 12:02 PM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Quote:

Benjamin Edelen wrote: (Post 205625)
I will not touch the relationship between Aiki and the Force, but I would like to point out that the ideas in Star Wars were not those of Lucas, but instead those of Joseph Campbell.What Lucas has done with the original vision of Star Wars is shameful, and he has not produced anything even remotely as inspirational as the original trilogy since Campbell passed away.

?????.. I think you missed the point :crazy:

Mario,
I love the comparison between Aikidoka and Jedi!!!!
Just last night we were talking about using the Force. (The lights in the Dojo went out just before bokken practice.):eek:

ChrisMoses 05-07-2008 12:15 PM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Not a coincidence, Lucas used OSensei and his comments about ki as a basis for Yoda and the force.

Upyu 05-07-2008 02:28 PM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Mad Ki! Don't mess wit it :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GJOVPjhXMY

Dewey 05-08-2008 09:31 PM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Quote:

Robert John wrote: (Post 205639)
Mad Ki! Don't mess wit it :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GJOVPjhXMY

Sweet!

Since my "style" of Aikido is from Larry Reynosa (former student of Steven Seagal), then I guess I'm of the Sith variety. You may now address me as Darth Dewey!

Seriously, though.

I'm not sure what to make of Ki. Speaking to my experience thus far, I'd regard it as twofold. One, I consider it as heiho (martial strategy). Second, I'd consider it biomechanical electricity and applied leverage.

Dewey 07-08-2008 11:27 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Some months later...

wonder if he ever sold any copies of his book?:D

As we would say in Missouri: "may the Farce be with you!"

KamiKaze_Evolution 07-09-2008 08:40 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
My sensei always say ki is timing, speed and energy, and total aikido also mentioned that "ki is mastery of balance"

boyana 07-12-2008 05:09 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Mario well done!

Stefan Stenudd 07-22-2008 03:10 AM

Ki synonyms
 
There are countless beliefs and ideas about a life force or life energy in the world, some of them quite similar to the concept :ki:.

I made sort of an encyclopedia of such concepts, more or less synonymous to ki (qi). It became a book, but a large portion of it I also put on the web:
http://www.qi-energy.info/qi-synonyms.htm

And yes, the Force is there, too :)

dalen7 07-22-2008 04:05 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
I believe topics like this are more complicated than words can ever express.

The truth of something like ki is seen in the very act of a fist hitting a face - I know sounds ironically the opposite of ki, but its not.

Everything is intertwined and wrapped within itself - a life of singularity trying to act as duality - we live a life of drama which is all enacted upon a stage...nothing serious as we are all 'one'.

All this sounds mystical mumbo jumbo, but things connect.

The point is though, we dont fully understand how things connect - so we take basic concepts and turn them into fairy tale magic.

This in itself can be powerful upon the other minds that get entangled within your belief system - but on something outside of your belief system, it has no effect.

Reminds me of the old Aikido master on youtube who had his students dropping without touching them (mental suggestion), and then got his arse beat by someone who felt no unconscious tie to boost his ego.

So ki and Aikido - a lot more than meets the eye initially for sure.
And no, I dont expect this post to make much sense or for it to clearly reflect what it is Im thinking - but as I said at the beginning...this is a complex topic which words do not due justice to. ;)

Peace

dAlen

eric_lecaptain 07-22-2008 09:53 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
i have to share something amazing!!
i'm very "western" so prior to last nights practice i would have told you there is no such thing as "ki". however, my sensei showed me something yesterday i find unbelievable.
he "extended his ki" while standing on one foot and challenged me to push him down. i was unable to move him at all! even while he stood on one foot and i pushed will all my might.
absolutely amazing to me!!! i would not have believed it had i not participated...

MM 07-22-2008 10:02 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Quote:

Eric LeCaptain wrote: (Post 211854)
i have to share something amazing!!
i'm very "western" so prior to last nights practice i would have told you there is no such thing as "ki". however, my sensei showed me something yesterday i find unbelievable.
he "extended his ki" while standing on one foot and challenged me to push him down. i was unable to move him at all! even while he stood on one foot and i pushed will all my might.
absolutely amazing to me!!! i would not have believed it had i not participated...

Something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVCZf53XIE0

eric_lecaptain 07-22-2008 12:33 PM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Quote:

Mark Murray wrote: (Post 211857)

sorta, except more impressive as i was pushing him backward instead of sideways....

Shany 07-22-2008 01:12 PM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
but there is a difference between life force and self hypnosis, it seems that the people in the videos including the so called master have mastered the self hypnosis method for believing they can control people with their life force (KI)...

now the question is, who live in a false world, we or them?

eric_lecaptain 07-22-2008 03:14 PM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Quote:

Brian Dewey wrote: (Post 205786)
Sweet!

Since my "style" of Aikido is from Larry Reynosa (former student of Steven Seagal), then I guess I'm of the Sith variety. You may now address me as Darth Dewey!

Seriously, though.

I'm not sure what to make of Ki. Speaking to my experience thus far, I'd regard it as twofold. One, I consider it as heiho (martial strategy). Second, I'd consider it biomechanical electricity and applied leverage.

hey i was just curious. what "style" is steven seagal into??

Dewey 08-10-2008 11:45 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
Quote:

Eric LeCaptain wrote: (Post 211909)
hey i was just curious. what "style" is steven seagal into??

Seagal is Aikikai (last time I checked). Reynosa is Aikikai...he has a formal relationship with Hombu Dojo in his own right.

Concerning your "ki" experiences: I'd strongly suggest moving those into a more dynamic environment. I've found that the whole concept of "ki tests" changes dramatically when an uke attacks sincerely (i.e. as in, throwing everything he has at nage). In that regard, this 5'7", 175lb. man has "felt" ki when he regularly throws everything he has at his sempai..."felt" as in my backside on the tatami and/or in painful jointlock...depsite my best efforts to fight against.

Regards,

Will Prusner 08-11-2008 01:06 AM

Re: Ki (as in 'The Force')
 
from wikipedia: "The literal translation is "air", "breath", or "gas""

...all three of which mystically occur at our dojo with frightening regularity.

Stefan Stenudd 08-11-2008 06:20 AM

Ki kanji
 
Quote:

William Prusner wrote: (Post 213349)
from wikipedia: "The literal translation is "air", "breath", or "gas""
...all three of which mystically occur at our dojo with frightening regularity.

The kanji pictogram for ki, :ki: , actually consists of two parts: One is the sign for air, vapor, or mist, and the other (inside of the former) is the sign for rice. Boiling rice, the main nutrition for the Chinese and Japanese.
So, it implies an energy or nourishment within the air.

I have written about ki - and examples of how to exercise it - on my website:
http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/ki-energy.htm

Whether you believe in it or not, it is a rewarding method to develop your aikido. But of course, muscles are good to have, too ;)


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