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-   -   Poll: Should aikido teachers tell their students how to act in their everyday lives outside of the d (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1439)

AikiWeb System 01-13-2002 10:31 AM

AikiWeb Poll for the week of January 13, 2002:

Should aikido teachers tell their students how to act in their everyday lives outside of the dojo?
  • Yes
  • No
  • I don't do aikido
Here are the current results.

lt-rentaroo 01-13-2002 11:03 AM

Hello,

My belief is that Aikido teachers should not tell their students how to behave or act outside the dojo. However, I believe that Aikido teachers are role models for their students and should be well aware of their own actions. If you expect your students to act in a courteous, professional manner befitting that of a martial artist, then as the teacher you should act the same.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was Ghandi who said you should be the change you want to see in the world.

HillBilly 01-13-2002 12:36 PM

Yeah i agree with that.Your Sensi should act like a role model.But i also belive your teacher should make the ideas of not using akido unless neccesary and other stuff relating to it.well that is my thoguht.

HillBilly

guest1234 01-13-2002 01:07 PM

I don't have any problem with a sensei talking about how he feels we should behave...but if it were something I disagree with, I wouldn't feel compelled to follow his advice, and if I disagreed enough, I could skip his classes or leave the dojo. So I think it is risky for a sensei to go down this road; also, he should be sure his actions mirror his words.

I've seen senseis make a big difference in teenagers' behavior with a few well chosen words. But it can be abused and I would hope senseis are careful of what they say, and to whom they say it. Otherwise, they might do better to be quiet.

I've also seen senseis who just teach by example, you admire how they are and try to be that way, without them telling you. Personally, I like this way, but it may be because I prefer observing and feeling to being told what to do:rolleyes:

PeterR 01-13-2002 02:02 PM

I believe it is the regular dedicated training that acts on the individucal and through time changes them.

It is the job of the teacher to create an environment where that level of training can occur and the end result is not negative. This may require little tweaks on the instructors behalf but lectures on behaviour outside the dojo - surely not.

That does not mean the instructor should remain quiet if someone is truely stepping across the line but one must be very careful about makeing judgements.

The longest lecture I got on behaviour was the week after I returned to Canada. Bitting my tongue again and again as the group was told what is proper and what is not - and of course how the Japanese behave. In Japan there would be the occaisional life lesson - but oh so short.

Amendes 01-13-2002 05:21 PM

Pool Opinion
 
I think that a sensi or sempi has every right to make suggestions on how to act outside.
But I disagree that they sould "Tell" Someone how to behave. They should Suggest. "Tell" is too harsh.

On senior student said while teaching a class once to us. You should respect the earth and not pollute it. IF you see someone on throw something on the gorund you can even ask them kindly to not do that.

Anyways this was just a suggestion, not an order. This I beleive is ok, suggetions help alot. But orders are wrong. :ai:

Greg Jennings 01-13-2002 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lt-rentaroo
Hello,

My belief is that Aikido teachers should not tell their students how to behave or act outside the dojo. However, I believe that Aikido teachers are role models for their students and should be well aware of their own actions. If you expect your students to act in a courteous, professional manner befitting that of a martial artist, then as the teacher you should act the same.
(snip)

Ditto here. Unless it's something like urging kids to get good grades.

Best,

Edward 01-14-2002 12:04 AM

Ideally, there should be a true teacher-student relationship where the teacher could have some positive influence on the student's behaviour in the outside world. I believe that this relationship becomes more visible in the case of Japanese teachers, as the role of teacher in the far-east is that of a moral authority that could trespass the confines of the dojo.

Unfortunately, even though I cannot admire enough my teachers' Aikido, their behaviour in normal life is not always as commendable as their Aikido, to put it in diplomatic terms, and I don't feel so compelled to consider any of them as a role model.

I am indebted for life to my teachers for giving me their knowledge in Aikido, which has become a big part of my life, and for that I am forever grateful, and I could never repay them enough for that.

I am not sure if we could talk about normal life anymore, as Aikido is interlocked in every aspect of our daily actions. However, I would rather try to base my actions in life on my own principles and ethics as well as on those of Aikido, not those of my teachers no matter how good they might be.

To answer the question, yes, I think teachers should tell the students how to behave in every day life and should try to influence positively their lives, but should the students follow the advice or not? That is another story.

Cheers,
Edward

Jonathan 01-14-2002 12:26 PM

The adage "actions speak louder than words" would seem to apply here. What one does is as much or more of a representation of what one thinks and believes as anything one might say (especially in the case of a hypocrite. One's behaviour is a "sermon" of sorts to those looking on. So it is possible to relay a lesson on how to, or how not to, conduct oneself without saying a word. All of us do this, not just Aikido teachers. Is this appropriate? The question seems moot to me since giving such non-verbal "lessons" is unavoidable.

Maybe the question should be: Is it appropriate to give any weight to the life lessons of my Aikido teacher?

Thalib 01-14-2002 05:30 PM

Advice
 
Telling is such a powerful word. I mean, that becomes a command. Unless we are under that chain of command, then no, I do not agree that teachers should tell us what to do outside class. Not just Aikido, any class, any teachers.

However, what they could do is give advice on how to run our lives. It is up to us to accept it or not. I myself have taken good advice in Aikido class and try to apply it to everyday life.

It's Aikido in daily life. Not just that, I try to apply Ki in daily life also.

Edward 01-15-2002 02:43 AM

I think there is a phrase in the Bible which deals exactly with the current matter.

I don't have the exact words, maybe someone could help me out, but the general meaning is like:

"Listen to their preachings, but don't follow their deeds."

Cheers,
Edward

Chuck Clark 01-18-2002 09:27 PM

It seems to me that the answer to this question depends on the needs of the student/s and the nature of the relationship the student/s have with their teacher.

I also think there is a definite difference between an instructor and a teacher.

Regards,

Rocky Izumi 03-04-2006 07:50 PM

Re: Poll: Should aikido teachers tell their students how to act in their everyday lives outside of the d
 
Tai-iku, Ki-iku, Toku-iku, Joshiki-no-kanyo

Development of the body, development of the spirit, development of ethics, development of common sense -- the four purposes for practicing Aikido. These go with you no matter where you are, in the dojo or outside.

My favorite saying is "Do as I do, not as I say."

Rock

Lyle Bogin 03-05-2006 08:14 AM

Re: Poll: Should aikido teachers tell their students how to act in their everyday lives outside of the d
 
No teaching on "off the mat" subjects should be required if your practice is thoughtful. We should be careful not tto confuse aikido instructors with therapists or parents.

Larry Feldman 03-05-2006 09:51 AM

Re: Poll: Should aikido teachers tell their students how to act in their everyday lives outside of the d
 
Lyle - you are so right about not confusing teachers with therapists or parents. It always amazes me that because I can teach a student how to throw someone down, they think I am an expert on: marriage, divorce, finding a job, leaving a job, etc. There are times I want to put a Disclaimer on my Gi; "Caution, this man is not your Rabbi". For a long time my senior student was a therapist and I used to joke with her about it - hey this is your department. Once she had to give me recommendations of a therapist for a student.

But I do help where I can, and give advice if I feel like I am qualified At times I will direct them to someone else in the dojo if they can help, or ask the dojo if they have any contacts. Sometimes it is as innocent as looking for a dentist since they heard my brother is one.

Mark Freeman 03-05-2006 11:24 AM

Re: Poll: Should aikido teachers tell their students how to act in their everyday lives outside of the d
 
Hi,

I think common sense should be the guiding principle here. Aikido teachers are teachers not 'gurus' some may be good technicians, but that may be the limit of there 'qualifications'. Some may have spent their whole lives practicing Budo, and live their lives accordingly, on or off the mat no difference.
If you are 'told' to do something in your life that is not aikido related it is your choice whether you follow the instruction.
Much depends on how much genuine respect you have for the person doing the telling, and the reason behing why you are being told. For example, if you are prone to getting into 'scuffles' down the pub on a friday night and your teacher 'tells' you to pay more attention to avoiding this behaviour, then I believe that this may be fair. If on the other hand you are being told to behave in a way that has no bearing on your practice or your conduct within the dojo, then you may ask why you teacher is exercising this sort of control.
Just a few thoughts, I think Chuck just said the same thing in less words.

regards,
Mark

SeiserL 03-06-2006 07:44 AM

Re: Poll: Should aikido teachers tell their students how to act in their everyday lives outside of the d
 
No.


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