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-   -   Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14201)

gtango2000 03-27-2008 11:29 AM

Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
In Doshu's book, Best Aikido, Doshu steps in and atemi . Yamada sensei steps back in his first book Aikido Complete. How do you do it?

Flintstone 03-27-2008 12:00 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
Quote:

Glenn Tango wrote: (Post 202694)
In Doshu's book, Best Aikido, Doshu steps in and atemi . Yamada sensei steps back in his first book Aikido Complete. How do you do it?

Depending. Kihon/Gotai or Kinonagare/Ryutai? In static practice step in and atemi :triangle:, while in dynamic practice step back and atemi (this can be seen as :circle:, but it's actually :triangle: too).

Nick P. 03-27-2008 06:07 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
In. We are taught to never back up.
Your mileage may vary.

Stefan Stenudd 03-27-2008 06:43 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
Quote:

Glenn Tango wrote: (Post 202694)
How do you do it?

I step in, in both cases. I don't really like to step back. But that's just me. Surely, there are many ways to do it, all of them being right.

This is my katatedori ikkyo:
http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/ikkyo-...nmi.htm#gykato
And here is my katadori:
http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/ikkyo-...nmi.htm#gykato

Aikilove 03-28-2008 02:33 AM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
As a basic - out and atemi. As a variation - in and atemi. To move to the outside I see as a sound strategy in general and hence it is the basics (and Saito sensei taught that too).

/J

Beard of Chuck Norris 03-28-2008 06:01 AM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
No option of stepping to the side?
;)

Aikilove 03-28-2008 06:13 AM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
Quote:

Jo Duncan wrote: (Post 202746)
No option of stepping to the side?
;)

To the side is the same as outside, in my case, and back/outside for some others. From static grip it tend to be more directly to the outside (~90 degrees w.r.t. the attack line if you like) and in motion it tend to be more towards back/outside (~45 degrees). It all depends on the movement (or lack therof) of uke.

/J

phitruong 03-28-2008 06:58 AM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
it depends on whether my uke is tall or short, big or small, fast or slow, old or young and/or any combination thereof. I'll move to a place where my uke is in a disadvantage position and I am in an advantage position. dynamic sphere is it not?

aikidoc 03-30-2008 06:14 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
To the side, i.e., lateral 90 degrees with possible atemi. Kato sensei's style.

ramenboy 04-03-2008 12:18 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
Quote:

Glenn Tango wrote: (Post 202694)
In Doshu's book, Best Aikido, Doshu steps in and atemi . Yamada sensei steps back in his first book Aikido Complete. How do you do it?

however your sensei does it, do it that way

rob_liberti 04-05-2008 08:42 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
Regardless of how your sensei does it. Do what Osensei did. Be connected to their center at the moment of contact an do whatever you want. :)

I like techniques in motion. There is a kokyunage you get by sliding forward under the grab - that establishes the verticle and makes a nice center to center connection. (I step in with the opposite foot.) Then there is a second kokyunage based much more on the horizontal (which only works after the verticle is well established) that gives you more of a hoola hip-body/arm sway up and into the ukes center - all while continuing that initial sliding. Fixing your intention such that the power sticks in them and spirals out between their grabbing arm's shoulder and their head really helps. This should be working together so that you are slplitting your uke's connection energy up and down their spine at the same time. I strongly advise looking for (multiple) kokyunages when doing techniques.

Rob

ramenboy 04-06-2008 04:58 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
learn the basics first before you try to make aikido your own

Rupert Atkinson 04-10-2008 02:29 AM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
If it is a static attack or he pulls, you might move in, if it is a dynamic attack forwards, you might step back. There is no absolute. Case by case. Unfortunately, some dojos do it all one way, others do it all another. I have no idea why. I guess they just want to standardise/control everything.

Dunken Francis 04-15-2008 03:01 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
I have to agree with Rupert on this one I think - whereas there is obvious value in setting a technical basic, ultimately every technique will differ in reaction to the nature of the 'attack'.

If the quation is "what is your BASIC?" then that is a different matter...

Dunken Francis 04-15-2008 03:10 PM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
I have to agree with Rupert on this one I think - whereas there is obvious value in setting a technical basic, ultimately every technique will differ in reaction to the nature of the 'attack'.

If the quation is "what is your BASIC?" then that is a different matter...

George S. Ledyard 04-17-2008 11:41 AM

Re: Katate tori ikyo omote,, kata tori ikyo omote
 
Quote:

Nick Pittson wrote: (Post 202714)
In. We are taught to never back up.
Your mileage may vary.

Increasing distance, or zoning out as the Jeet Kun Do folks would call it, is different from backing up. Backing up is a retreat, it involves a collapse of the forward intention, often a shift of weight back.

Stepping back can be done while maintaining a forward intention both mentally and physically. If when I step back my mind stays focused inside the partner's attack and my weight stays forward, the movement functions to draw the attacker in. But when he is drawn in, you actually have irimi and are inside his defense.

There is nothing wrong with stepping back... you should be free to move in any direction you wish without losing connection to the partner. Backing up, on the other hand, happens when you are forced out of your space by your opponent. Once you back up, the attacker will fill the space you have vacated and still keep coming. You can tell when you have backed up because you have no irimi and you can't stop once you start because the attacker never lets you recover.

But it isn't the problem with stepping back; it's the fact that your mind caved and lost its forward projection and your body lost it's ability to move forward. The difference between zoning out and backing up is largely mental.


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