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-   -   Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14100)

AikiWeb System 03-09-2008 12:30 AM

Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
AikiWeb Poll for the week of March 9, 2008:

Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Yes
  • No
Here are the current results.

Cast your vote at the top right of this page.

eyrie 03-09-2008 03:20 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
Um... a poll with one choice? IF there was a NO option... that would be my answer.

"Center" is not specific enough. Even if you pointed to the spot 4 fingers width below your belly button and indicated that area as the "center", what does that mean? It isn't explicative enough about what you're doing with it or how to do it or what to feel for.

ElizabethCastor 03-09-2008 03:46 PM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
But I DO practice aikido....

Shannon Frye 03-09-2008 08:00 PM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
Perhaps it's a secret "hidden meaning" question. Only those who DO take aikido will notice that the words "one's center" are in the physical 'center' of the question. (6 words from the beginning and the end) :D

Shannon

Stefan Stenudd 03-10-2008 04:46 AM

Oh yes!
 
Definitely yes. I talk about it all the time in my classes, and I always encourage my students to work on it. The center is indeed the center of any budo.
It may be confusing to beginners, but it still needs to be introduced early on. It is the way to an aikido that is so much more than self-defense or a series of complicated techniques.

I could go on and on about the subject...
Instead, here is what I wrote about it on my website:
http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/tanden.htm

SeiserL 03-10-2008 07:06 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
IMHO, referring to it isn't as important as moving from it.

akiy 03-10-2008 10:16 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
Hi everyone,

I have fixed the poll so that there's more than just the "I don't do aikido" option. Oops!

-- Jun

Stefan Stenudd 03-10-2008 10:32 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
Quote:

Jun Akiyama wrote: (Post 201337)
I have fixed the poll so that there's more than just the "I don't do aikido" option.

This is not your day: Now, the question is cut short...

akiy 03-10-2008 10:45 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
Thanks, Stefan; I have corrected it. You'd think that after posting over 400 polls, I'd have the hang of it by now!

-- Jun

Stefan Stenudd 03-10-2008 03:17 PM

Clever questions
 
Jun,
I am impressed by the clever poll questions you come up with, one after the other. Myself, I would probably run dry long before the first hundred.
And I just love this last poll! Right up my alley :D

eyrie 03-10-2008 04:38 PM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 201317)
IMHO, referring to it isn't as important as moving from it.

Well, Lynn... to the average beginner, what does that mean? OK, so (let's say I'm a rank noob) my center is 4 fingers width below my belly button and somewhere in the middle of body... HOW do I move from my center?

Stefan Stenudd 03-13-2008 07:36 AM

Actually from your center
 
Quote:

Ignatius Teo wrote: (Post 201418)
HOW do I move from my center?

Well, one good way of practicing it is with the sword cut. In chudankamae you hold your sword in front of your center. To draw the sword, push it forward from your center, with your arms extended, and this movement will lead to the sword being raised above your head. When cutting, move the sword forward, keeping your arms extended, and it will return to your center.

You can do for example shihonage in almost exactly the same way - athough your steps are different.

Moving from your center is actually moving from your center. Begin any technique from the chudankame guard, whether you have a sword in your hands or not.

There is more to it, of course, but the above should be a good start, I think.

RonRagusa 03-13-2008 11:49 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
Quote:

Ignatius Teo wrote: (Post 201418)
Well, Lynn... to the average beginner, what does that mean? OK, so (let's say I'm a rank noob) my center is 4 fingers width below my belly button and somewhere in the middle of body... HOW do I move from my center?

This is a very simple example of one way to teach a beginner to move from his center. Have nage stand in a natural stance. Touch the top of nage's head and say ‘concentrate here'. Put the fingertips of your hand just below nage's collar bone and push with increasing force towards the nage's spine and slightly downward. Note how much force you have to exert in order to move nage off balance. Return nage to natural stance.

Touch nage's one point and say ‘concentrate here'. Put the fingertips of your hand just below nage's collar bone and push with increasing force towards nage's spine and slightly downward. As you push, remind nage to ‘keep one point' and ‘extend ki'. With practice nage will be able to absorb greater amounts of force applied to the push than you initially used to push him off balance.

Once nage can perform this exercise successfully from standing it's quite easy to have him begin walking into the push and move you off balance. The exercise is performed as above but instead of standing and absorbing the push, nage literally walks into it. At first, while consciously avoiding concentrating on one point, nage will be taken off balance because his upper body will not move forward as he begins to walk. When nage switches to keeping one point he will begin to be able to walk through the push with relative ease.

The choice of metaphors you use to help nage visualize what is going on in this exercise is unimportant. You can talk about ground path, facial contraction, body connection, friction, angular momentum or whatever. Students will develop their own images to visualize the feeling of centeredness (what we call correct feeling or their strongest possible state). The feedback from the pushing is what allows nage to learn what feels dependable and then enhance and strengthen that feeling in order to absorb more force as uke gradually turns up the juice.

As with all paired ki exercises that involve testing it's important to remember that this isn't a contest. Uke's job is to aid nage by applying the correct amount of force in order to facilitate nage's ability to absorb the force and remain stable whether standing or in motion.

lotta 08-03-2008 06:20 AM

Re: Poll: Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
 
Quote:

AikiWeb System wrote: (Post 201241)
AikiWeb Poll for the week of March 9, 2008:

Do you think referring to one's "center" is helpful in aikido training?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Yes
  • No
Here are the current results.

Cast your vote at the top right of this page.

Yes. of course. Unfortunately I did not find teachers that do mention
AND SHOW HOW TO DO IT till I`d done a lot of Aikido techniques.


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