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-   -   Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14065)

tuturuhan 03-03-2008 11:01 AM

Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Please find enclosed a video of one of my students. She has studied with me for over 13 years. She teaches martial arts in Oakland, CA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Caqtib-pK38

Though, the style is different in name, I hope their are concepts and movements that aikido stylists will affirm.

Sincerely,
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

tuturuhan 03-03-2008 01:58 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
The strategy enacted here is one of ba qua and tai chi chuan. The objective is to move from one quadrant to the to the next, all the while flanking and getting behind her opponent.

Notice, that she rarely shows her "hidden knife". It only comes out after the left hand has blended, guided and manipulated her opponents. She attempts to pick off her opponents one at a time.

In this sense, she uses internal energy rather than muscle to defeat her bigger, stronger opponents. The knife insures her superiority, her ability to truly defend herself.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Ron Tisdale 03-03-2008 02:11 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Nice stuff! I really liked your (I think it was the poster) open hand work at the end.

Best,
Ron

tuturuhan 03-03-2008 02:34 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Ron,

Thank you.

There are various methods we employ in using the hand work: external/male, perscussive/in-between and internal/female.

The circle is employed in a way where the striking is repetitious given the circular pathway. When adding the circular footwork, centrifical force and gravitational pull multiply the force of the hand strikes. Rather then using muscle we are using positioning and simple mechanics.

Thank you again for your comments. I choose this tape because I thought it came close to what aikido practitioners do when defending against multiple opponents.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Ron Tisdale 03-03-2008 03:05 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
It is close to some of what I am familiar with in the method of evasions, the entering and pivoting. In the particular style of aikido I am the most familiar with, the entry tends to be more dramatic. I think her use of knife work is great, and suppliments the way she moves.

I do not, however, see the kind of body structure in her that I am now trying to achieve. But I believe that I do see that in your movement. Would you care to discuss the differences?

Best,
Ron

tuturuhan 03-03-2008 04:21 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Ron,

Wow...good eye and quite perceptive.

It is not the amount of years vs. her years training...though I have been in practice since I was 7 years old. This is my 45th year learning martial arts,.

It is, the difference in form vs. formlessness. Most students, adhere to the need for form and structure. The problem is that the form and structure may not be correct for the utility of the technique.

Having the ability to change structure "like water" allows one to take whatever form the water takes as it blends to its opponent. Likewise, water can flow from calm, to brook, to running hard. As such, my variable in movement is subject to more gears than hers. She can go fast, medium and slow, but, is limited to three gears. My gears work along a spectrum.

If my opponent goes very fast I can choose to go very fast. But, instead, I slow down and then go fast, to blend to and then disrupt his rhythm.

Mushashi in his book of five rings discusses this concept of water far better than I do. Thank you for the conversation,.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

As such, my body is more like water than my student's body.

Sam Turnage 03-03-2008 05:16 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Nice stuff, thanks for sharing. I too liked your hand work that I saw at the end, very cool!
It looks like it would blend or compliment Aikido or AJJ very well.

What is it? Look like a type of Kung-fu to me.

Regards
Sam

tuturuhan 03-03-2008 05:36 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Sam,

Thank you.

It is Tai Chi Chuan and Ba qua. It is Kalijin. I have practiced many styles over the last 45 years. I started with Judo.

As for it being complimentary, yes, I am a great admirer of Aikido's founder. In his 40's he was still manhandling his opponents. I was struck by pictures showing his muscularity. But, by the time he was in his fifties he had already made the transition to "internal methods".

Sincerely,
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Chris Parkerson 03-03-2008 06:01 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
I like your and your student's movement.

We move similarly when faced with mass attack.

Just a question, Why does she use the saber grip rather than the reverse grip in this exercise?"

tuturuhan 03-03-2008 06:12 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Hi Chris,

Palm up, palm down. Tight grip, finger grip...

There are many reasons for the changes in structure. She is trained to use the reverse grip. She could have used said grip to pierce downward, to hook, to guide and manipulate and to further hide the knife.

However, the forward or palm up grip allows her greater finger dexterity. With the backhand grip there is a tendency to hold the weapon to hard, with tenseness. In the same way one compares the fist strike to a palm or shuto open handed strike. The open hand is fluid.

As such, with the forward grip she can use her thumb to push, and palm to role the knife and her index finger to guide and direct the weapon.

What is more important, is the left hand that measures, guides, directs and manipulates to create opening for the right handed knife. Thank you for you questions.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Chris Parkerson 03-03-2008 06:38 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Thank you as well.
great movement. Instinctive and flowing.

Ron Tisdale 03-04-2008 08:29 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Thanks for the tips Joseph! Good chatting, maybe we'll get to train together sometime.

I prefer the reverse grip myself, but your comments on the grip she used were quite intelligent. I can see where with a small knife, I would get more utility from that grip than from with the reversed blade.

As to structure, I'd be interested in your comments in some of the threads where Mike Sigman, Rob John, and Dan Hardin participate.

Best,
Ron

tuturuhan 03-04-2008 08:38 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
In our linage, we make a distinction between the genders. There is the yang/male energy and the yin/female energy.

As such, the external martial arts are classified as being outer or muscular. The internal martial arts are seen as more connected. The idea is to "blend, to grasp and then to manipulate".

In this video she uses the rhythm of a three count beat to blend, to connect and then manipulate/knife her opponents. She has been taught not to show emotion or expression on her face. Physiologically, she is attempting to go deep inside herself.

Instead of using the straight line, she uses the circle. The "directness" of the straight line is seen as a male characteristic. She plays to the female characteristic of absorbing and engulfing her opponent.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

tuturuhan 03-05-2008 09:27 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Ron,

I will look at their comments. I have viewed some of their tapes already. Are they the main proponents of modern aikido in the US? I ask because I am not familiar with the aikido society.

So far, I like Mike's structure and no structure in his movements. In other words, outwardly he shows you a structure, but, inwardly he shows you how his whole body can be "jello". This is quite important in terms of receiving an opponent.

However, I have not yet seen him in action using his waza.

Sincerely
Joseph

Ron Tisdale 03-05-2008 11:13 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Mike studied aikido some time ago, but he is not primarily an aikidoka now. If you keep reading, I believe most of his study now is taiji.

Best,
Ron

tuturuhan 03-05-2008 11:39 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Ron,

Ahhh...Mike is using aikido structure and applying tai chi. He is attempting to bridge.

And what about Dan Harden? I tried looking him up on youtube. No results. Though, I relate strongly to his ideas about "no form". How everything is simply, and now I am paraphrasing "like water".

Sincerely,
Joseph

Ron Tisdale 03-05-2008 11:47 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
I don't know that I would classify Mike that way...but I know jack about taiji... :D

Dan is a whole 'nuther issue. Neither of these guys are small...

Dan has Daito ryu, Koryu, and MMA in his background, I believe.

Best,
Ron

tuturuhan 03-05-2008 11:55 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote: (Post 200965)
I don't know that I would classify Mike that way...but I know jack about taiji... :D

Dan is a whole 'nuther issue. Neither of these guys are small...

Dan has Daito ryu, Koryu, and MMA in his background, I believe.

Best,
Ron

Hi Ron,

Thank you. I will try looking for tapes of these guys. Lately, I have been watching Tohei's old tapes. He was quite smooth.

Sincerely
Joseph

tuturuhan 03-06-2008 08:59 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Women Teachers,

I've been lucky. In my life, I have had several woman teachers. In my linage, there is a woman called the Princess Josephina.

She moved in circles within circles. She used rhythm, fluidity, timing and manipulations to engulf her opponents. She used internal energy.

So, have you noticed a difference in the styles and methods of female martial artists. In Taoist tradition, the female, is dark, deep and water. She is internal. The male is bright, light and fire. He is external. Tai Chi, Hsing-I, Ba qua, White Crane are internal styles that use female energy.

Any thoughts?

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

CitoMaramba 03-06-2008 09:21 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
And Princess Josephina was blind, according to the stories...

Other Women Warriors from the Philippines:

Princess Urduja: (although her existence is questioned by some historians)
Quote:

Princess Urduja ancient accounts say, was a 14th century woman ruler of the dynastic Kingdom of Tawalisi in Pangasinan, a vast area lying by the shores of the Lingayen Gulf and the China Sea. Pangasinan was an important kingdom then, and the sovereign was equal to the King of China. Known far and wide, Princess Urduja was famous for leading a retinue of woman warriors who were skilled fighters and equestrians. They developed a high art of warfare to preserve their political state.

Gabriela Silang
:
Quote:

María Josefa Gabriela Cariño Silang (March 19, 1731-September 29, 1763) was the first Filipino woman to lead a revolt during the Spanish colonization of the Philippines. An active member of the insurgent force of Diego Silang, her husband, she led the group for four months after his death before she was captured and executed.

Teresa Magbanua

Quote:

Teresa Magbanua y Ferraris earned the distinction of being the only woman to lead combat troops in the Visayas against Spanish and American forces.
Trinidad Tecson
Quote:

Trinidad was already 47 years old when she joined the woman chapter of the Katipunan in 1895....Albeit signing with the blood was not required for women, Trinidad drew blood from her forearm and used it to sign her oath of loyalty, determination and affiliation to the Katipunan.
... In the battlefield, Trinidad fought side by side with men, wearing a Katipuneros outfit with a wide brimmed hat.

tuturuhan 03-06-2008 10:16 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Hi Inocencio,

You know your South-East Asian history. Thank you for your reply.

I am quite grateful to my women teachers. By teaching me how to dance, they taught me how to "lead" the dance and just as important, how to use and understand the intrinsic nature of blending and following.

I personally believe that martial artists should understand and teach the differences in gender, in order to understand the complimentary natures.

But then, I have two daughters 7 and 10 and I am faced with understanding their natures.

Best wishes,
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

CitoMaramba 03-06-2008 10:24 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Ginoong Arriola,

We have a saying in the Philippines, "Ang hindi lumingon sa pinanggalingan ay hindi makakarating sa paroroonan"
Roughly translated, "If you don't look back on your origins you will not get to your destination".

I also have two daughters and am learning to deal with (blend?) their female energies.

"Gumagalang" (respectfully),

Cito (Inocencio)

tuturuhan 03-06-2008 10:48 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Hi Cito,

I look forward to hearing your lessons regarding raising daughters. I keep telling them that I am going to send them to a convent in the Phillippines.

My mother in law lives with us and is a tough visayan 82 year old taskmaster. So, it helps.

best wishes,
Joe

CitoMaramba 03-06-2008 11:45 AM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Hi Joe,
I should be asking tips from you, since your daughters are older (mine are 6 and 4). :D
My wife is from Mindanao, I am from Manila. We relocated to the UK 2 years ago.
You are lucky to have your biyenan (mother-in-law) with you. My mother came from Manila and visited us for a week last month... we wish she could have stayed longer!
I think my being around all these women is helping tap into the "yin" side of martial energies :)

Gumagalang,

Cito

tuturuhan 03-06-2008 12:42 PM

Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack
 
Hi Cito,

I'm laughing out loud. about the "yin" side.

However, today is my deceased mother's birthday March 6th. So, I'm just a bit sad about not having her around. My children missed meeting her.

Well, I am sure we can share are experiences.

So, what are you doing in London? I was in europe last year doing seminars. I was quite astounded at how London and Paris had changed since my last visit. We truly are in a diverse global society.

Sincerely
Joe


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