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-   -   Daito Ryu's Aiki (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13973)

DH 02-14-2008 09:47 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Doesn't work? Anyone who understands it and is doing it right can stop very substantial aggression and power in its tracks, and toss em, or down them and hit like a Freakin truck with any part of their body.
I think the answer is to stop doing Aikido and learn to do Aiki...do, the way it was supposed to be done. Its holds tremendous promise in the hands of the right people.

stan baker 02-15-2008 08:30 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Aiki power is the way of the future

stan

Aikibu 02-15-2008 12:00 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 199260)
Doesn't work? Anyone who understands it and is doing it right can stop very substantial aggression and power in its tracks, and toss em, or down them and hit like a Freakin truck with any part of their body.
I think the answer is to stop doing Aikido and learn to do Aiki...do, the way it was supposed to be done. Its holds tremendous promise in the hands of the right people.

This has been my experiance. The purpose of the Aiki Arts is to develop this kind of "power" Aikido uses it for a different "result" than Aiki-JuJitsu. I would prefer to see the exact opposite.... Practice Aikido as much as you can.... with all the effort you can muster...If you do this you... like some others here...may have a good chance at discovering and experiancing the "secret" to Aiki,,, which by the way... is hiding in plain sight....

The problem lies not with "doing Aikido" but in how one does "it"

As I have mentioned a dozen times If it appears that your Sensei does not understand this "secret" or cannot demonstrate it. Time to move on.

WIlliam Hazen

stan baker 02-15-2008 08:12 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
William,

Which sensei are you refering to

stan

Aikibu 02-15-2008 10:14 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

Stan Baker wrote: (Post 199314)
William,

Which sensei are you refering to

stan

Stan,

If you had as much experiance as I do then you would know whom.

William Hazen

Back on my ignore list you go....

DH 02-16-2008 12:28 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

William Hazen wrote: (Post 199299)
This has been my experiance. The purpose of the Aiki Arts is to develop this kind of "power" Aikido uses it for a different "result" than Aiki-JuJitsu.

Hmmm.. Actually I'd say that the aikido I have seen only uses part of the power of the aiki of Daito ryu. And that mainly to cast away or project. Daito ryu has distinct training to either *draw* people across their body lines or to draw them in-in ways I have not ever seen used in aikido. With the exception of Shioda. And he was trained by Kodo.

Quote:

William Hazen wrote: (Post 199299)
Practice Aikido as much as you can.... with all the effort you can muster...If you do this you... like some others here...may have a good chance at discovering and experiancing the "secret" to Aiki,,, which by the way... is hiding in plain sight....
WIlliam Hazen

Well I think we have pretty much seen the result of sixty years of training with all the effort you can muster. The Aikido seen today is the result of that. And most of the Aikido practiced today IMO...is broken, and desperately needs to be fixed.
I would be interested in seeing, or meeting, with anyone in Aikido who can model the power I have been discussing with any clarity and consistency under stress, and to do so with polish *outside* of their waza. In fact with no waza at all. Just to see if they had anything in their bodies.They should stand out like a beacon against all the budo wall paper out there.

Secret of aiki hidden in plain site?
Actually I don't agree that the secret of aiki is hidden in plain sight, and never did. Rather the *result* of training aiki has been shown in plain sight, and it was THAT which was withheld from most students; either through Intent, or through incompetence. In the end, most people have had to be introduced and shown just what to look for-in plain site- as they didn't have a clue what they were seeing.
Anyway, who cares, in the end it is by and large-absent today. The real task is not even in finding who has it. Who cares! It's finding who can and will take pity on all the students and actually teach it.:cool:

Ketsan 02-16-2008 05:33 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Really the effectiveness of "your" Aikido is down to the quality of of your centre.

Right now my centre is grumbling, my ki is weak. French toast is the answer!

:D

stan baker 02-16-2008 07:42 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
William,

I have more experience in aikido then you do, you should read what

Dan said and stop wasting time, then you should beg to go see him.

stan

Kevin Leavitt 02-16-2008 10:28 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
There must be a huge waiting list, if not, it sounds like there will be very soon!

Aikibu 02-16-2008 11:12 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
There are folks here who will vouch for Dan Hardin's practice so I don't doubt his abilities.

His opinions however are like mine... Blunt with a taste of the Irish....

I am not fond of "hero" worship and Stan indirectly brings up a good point actually. If Dan is such a good teacher Where are the students?

Who out here on the West Coast has Dan taught? Why aren't there more Seminars, Exhibitions, and Videos?

I have been there and done that in spades brother and I have personally met a number of the posters on this board Watched them practice taken Ukemi from some of them

What good is Dan's "enlightenment" if he chooses only to share it with a "priviledged" few? That is not the Bodhisattva Way...

I say this with respect and the same questions can be asked of me. However I do not have folks like Stan running on the various Aikido Forums touting Dan as an Aiki-God and my experiance in Aikido can be replicated by hundreds and thousands of folks who choose to practice hard.

O'Sensei made Aikido availible to everyone... Some his students took it and and did fantastic things with it. That is the way it should be...I personally know 5 of Nishio Shihan's Senior Students who have the ablities Dan talks about. The "Hiding in Plain Sight" analogy was something Tanaka Shihan ( he's featured in Shoji Nishio's videos) told me years ago. I have experianced the kind of Aiki Dan talks about and you would be surprised what this fat old man can do...LOL I have seen this essence in Robert Nadeau and some other Senior Teachers of the old Hombu style. It's there right in front of you. Do you have what it takes to grasp it? And if you do... will you be corrupted by it... or will you follow O'Sensei's path and share it with the world???

So back at ya Dan and Stan....I think it's just wonderful the two of you understand Aiki but unless something changes soon (and you both know what I am talking about) It will mean nothing when you both turn to dust.

I have been or am a member of a number of "Elite Super Adventure Clubs" I have walked with giants. and the one thing I have noticed and understand from all the "Super Adventures" I have had???

They follow the Bodhisattva Way....That is the way of Aiki my friends...Everything else is just your hungry ghost.

William Hazen

stan baker 02-16-2008 11:28 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
William,
I have trained with some of those guys on the west coast, their aikido is pretty good, they are just not on the level of what Dan is talking about, instead of making excuses go check it out for your self.

stan

Aikibu 02-16-2008 12:06 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

Stan Baker wrote: (Post 199341)
William,
I have trained with some of those guys on the west coast, their aikido is pretty good, they are just not on the level of what Dan is talking about, instead of making excuses go check it out for your self.

stan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy...

William Hazen

Kevin Leavitt 02-16-2008 12:46 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Wow, aikido apparently does work in a fight! RLTW!

Aikibu 02-16-2008 05:33 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

Kevin Leavitt wrote: (Post 199346)
Wow, aikido apparently does work in a fight! RLTW!

ALL THE WAY SIR!!! :D

William Hazen

Cady Goldfield 02-16-2008 10:54 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Seminars? Videos? Exhibitions? Are these trappings required to "prove" that someone has skills worth learning? Why not do as Stan suggests? Makes sense to me.

And, why do you have to ask where his students are? Do you expect them to walk around with advertising sandwich boards?There are quite a few people -- some of whom post on AikiWeb and have rank in an established aikido system, and so who are qualified to make judgements on what they experienced -- who have met and trained with the man. Some of them have written on AikiWeb about it. In fact, I think there is a lengthy thread, or maybe even two threads, on just that, over in the "Non-Aikido Martial Traditions" forum. But each and every person who wrote about this set of skills, and who all agreed that it is definitely important, and definitely what aikido should be but overwhelmingly is not, was blown off and ignored, as though they had written nothing of consequence. The silence was deafening. I'm curious as to why that is.

Kevin Leavitt 02-16-2008 11:33 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Cady,

It's not the skills, its the messianic tones post most everyone has issues with.

Robert Cowham 02-17-2008 04:04 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
On a visit to Boston last year I was able to train with Dan for a day and I'd like to say how much I enjoyed the experience. He was very open and welcoming, and I came away with lots of material for personal study. I look forward to future visits.

Thanks also to Cady (for the intro and the lift!).

Cady Goldfield 02-17-2008 11:13 AM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

Kevin Leavitt wrote: (Post 199352)

It's not the skills, its the messianic tones post most everyone has issues with.

I hear ya. No one likes feeling they're being preached at. But, sometimes people are just better able to communicate their passions and beliefs pleasantly in person, and amicably make their points on the mats or over beers, than in one-dimensional Internet forums. It's a tough medium.

C

P.S. Hi Robert. Still doing the holiday house-swapping? Coming back to New England again?

Kevin Leavitt 02-17-2008 01:01 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Yes it is a tough medium to communicate in. It has been my experiences that most people are much different than how you perceive them on the internet.

Aikibu 02-17-2008 03:45 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

Cady Goldfield wrote: (Post 199351)
Seminars? Videos? Exhibitions? Are these trappings required to "prove" that someone has skills worth learning? Why not do as Stan suggests? Makes sense to me.

And, why do you have to ask where his students are? Do you expect them to walk around with advertising sandwich boards?There are quite a few people -- some of whom post on AikiWeb and have rank in an established aikido system, and so who are qualified to make judgements on what they experienced -- who have met and trained with the man. Some of them have written on AikiWeb about it. In fact, I think there is a lengthy thread, or maybe even two threads, on just that, over in the "Non-Aikido Martial Traditions" forum. But each and every person who wrote about this set of skills, and who all agreed that it is definitely important, and definitely what aikido should be but overwhelmingly is not, was blown off and ignored, as though they had written nothing of consequence. The silence was deafening. I'm curious as to why that is.

You completely mis-read my post... Let me clarify...

1. I do not for a second doubt Mr. Hardin's Waza
2. He is free to doubt mine...
3. His Waza is not the only one that has the kind of power he suggests Indeed I have experianced it several times myself.
4. A good practice is one where in order to keep it One must give it away aka the Bodhisattva Way. Hence the line about Students Seminars and videos...
5. A man like Dan who is this good should get out more. :)
6. In my experiance the two threads you mentioned are important and our Aikido already teaches these skills however since in Dan and Stan's Case both 1 and 2 apply so why bother?
7. I am not "worried" about the fact "Mainstream" Aikido does little to teach these skills since "Mainstream" Aikido is moving towards our Philosophy of Waza... Simply put Our Aikido MUST (not should) work against other Waza in order to be considered a Martial Art...
8.Dan has nothing to prove to me and all Stan is doing in my opinion is diluting Dan's credibility with his endless Fan Boy Adulation...

My Aikido Sensei's are some of the best Martial Artists I have ever experianced and my "experiance" goes back to 1967 when I was a boy...That being said the only thing that has been "lost" among most folk is the fact that the Martial Arts and Aikido are only as "effective" as to what you put into them...

I feel no need to tout the "Awsome Aiki Power" of some of my Sensei's... What I need to do is to learn from them.... understand the deeper meaning of thier Waza.... and then pass on what I have learned to the best of my limited abilities.

They can speak for themselves...and at the end of my life (as they have taught me). It is what I have done with Aikido that folks will remember me by... not so much what I said...Nishio Shihan's words would be meaningless without the history of his Aikido and Japan thought enough of his contributions to award him thier highest civilian honor before he passed away.

That is the kind of man whose Aikido I wish to emulate not just someone whose figured out how to use his own mojo. I know PLENTY of those folks.

Bowing down to you Cady...

William Hazen

stan baker 02-17-2008 04:41 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
William,

I think your view is not quite correct, Nishio sensei did not have the type of aiki power that we are talking about. I think fanboy is alright if we are not so attached,I want to be proven wrong,so we can see more clearly.

stan

Aikibu 02-17-2008 06:35 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

Stan Baker wrote: (Post 199382)
William,

I think your view is not quite correct, Nishio sensei did not have the type of aiki power that we are talking about. I think fanboy is alright if we are not so attached,I want to be proven wrong,so we can see more clearly.

stan

Thank you Stan. this post speaks for itself.

For further emphasis see item number #8 in my last post

William Hazen

Ewan Wilson 02-17-2008 06:37 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

William Hazen wrote: (Post 199347)
ALL THE WAY SIR!!! :D

William Hazen

why do you sign your name after posting? your posts have your name to the left anyway.

stan baker 02-17-2008 07:11 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
William
The problem is that your more interested in being right like most people out there instead of realizing something more profound.

stan

Aikibu 02-17-2008 07:33 PM

Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.
 
Quote:

Stan Baker wrote: (Post 199392)
William
The problem is that your more interested in being right like most people out there instead of realizing something more profound.

stan

Thanks for for sharing your profound thoughts Stan. :)

William Hazen


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