AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   Events Listings: Non-Aikido Martial Traditions (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80)
-   -   Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13729)

Budd 12-26-2007 10:20 AM

Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
NOTE:Though posted in the Non-Aikido forum, this workshop is intended for interested aikido practitioners.

Mike Sigman visits Itten Dojo in Enola, PA, on Saturday and Sunday, February 9th and 10th, 2008, for an informal workshop devoted to an examination of the theory and practice of training internal skills, specifically in the context of aikido.
Two practice sessions are planned each day: 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m., and 1:30 to 4:30 p.m.

Using predominantly two-person exercises, kokyu/jin will be developed for all directions, and then practiced in a number of Aikido applications. Breathing and structural-development exercises will be taught in terms of Misogi and kokyu/jin progress. Developmental and practice exercises for later use and suggested training approaches will also be part of the syllabus.

The registration fee for this workshop is $125.00. Martial arts uniforms are not required recommended training attire is gi pants, sweat pants, or gym shorts, and a t-shirt or sweat shirt.

At this time there are only a limited number of spaces remaining for this workshop. If you are interested in attending, please send a private message to Budd Yuhasz with your email address and, space allowing, a registration form will be sent for you to complete.

happysod 01-08-2008 04:43 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Budd, I want video clips of this or I'll refuse to believe Mike exists outside of a UK Tai-chi seminar where he inadvertently convinced one woman she could breath through her hand.

Mike Sigman 01-08-2008 08:03 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Funny you should mention videos, Ian... I was just talking to someone about that very thing, in relation to the workshop. A lot of my motivation has been inspired by the challenge of trying to formulate a succinct, Aikido-oriented approach that gives everyone demonstrable skills that they didn't have when they walked in the door. The other part of the challenge is to do it in such a way that 2 months from now everyone won't be back to doing the same old normal-movement stuff in class. So I've got 3 things I'm going to do:

1. A clearly articulated how-to with results for everyone. No "train this for 3 years and it will come upon you like the Holy Ghost, my son."

2. A set of notes that include the syllabus and suggested daily and dojo practice regimens.

3. A video of some of the workshop aspects for attendees to use as reference.

In other words, I'm trying to get pretty extensive results, even if it's only a 2-day workshop, but I'm also trying to do everything *I* can do to make sure it sticks. I'm tired of feeling guilty about how everyone does great in workshops but they tend to have back-slid within a few months. This time I'm making sure that I don't feel the least amount of guilt.

Working on ki/kokyu skills is like going to heaven... everyone loudly proclaims that they want to do it. But not yet. ;)

The short of it is that there ain't gonna be any spectacular vids to show on the web. Sorry. :p

FWIW

Mike

happysod 01-08-2008 09:04 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
But, but you promised me I'd learn how to walk properly again...

Sounds good, I may have to ask for the videos to be sent under a plain brown-paper wrapper and claim all the good bits came to me while meditating on a picture of Tohei, but I know you're big enough to understand that it's just you're not a one true aikidoka...

Mike Sigman 01-08-2008 09:20 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Ian Hurst wrote: (Post 196941)
Sounds good, I may have to ask for the videos to be sent under a plain brown-paper wrapper and claim all the good bits came to me while meditating on a picture of Tohei, but I know you're big enough to understand that it's just you're not a one true aikidoka...

Interestingly enough, I was recently looking at that early Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido film (it's now on YouTube in 5 sections). I hadn't seen that film in many years and I only had a fuzzy memory of even seeing some of it at all. But my point is that when I saw that film years ago, even though I thought I was a clever dick at the time, I really didn't understand what Tohei was actually showing. At the risk of being a clever-dick again (although allow for the fact that I now have more experience doing these things than Tohei did at the time), let me make a couple of comments about what I can see in the vids. BTW... it's worth taking a look at the vids on YouTube.

The main thing I'd say is that Tohei had better-developed skills than I thought (during his prime). I.e., he must have done a *lot* of practice to develop his powers to the levels I can see them on that old film. He does try to do one or two things that I think he fails to pull off very well, but on the whole his powers are pretty well developed, within the spectrum of ki/kokyu skills in Aikido. Now I'm curious to see some big-dog from the Ki-Society who has the level of power that Tohei had at that time. I'm not aware of anyone, but then I'm fairly ignorant about the Ki Society. Anyone got a name?

Regardless, the first 2 sections of that series on YouTube are worth looking at for anyone in any style of Aikido. At the time the film was made, the split between Shin Shin Toistsu and Hombu Dojo was not all that pronounced, so it wouldn't be heretical for someone from another style to look. ;)

FWIW

Mike

Ron Tisdale 01-08-2008 09:28 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
I'm pretty easily impressed in this field, but Terry Pierce really impressed me about 10 years ago or so. He's in NJ though, and I know how you hate the east coast! :D

B,
R

MM 01-08-2008 11:28 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Sounds like it'll be a good workshop/seminar. :)

The Tohei vids were interesting. First time I saw them. I wonder where he got the idea of letting people push on him. ;)

The funekogi (aka rowing exercise) was cool. He looked like he had some power going on at the end of each movement.

Mark

Budd 01-08-2008 11:44 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Friends don't let friends push each other . . . they make them ;)

SeiserL 01-08-2008 12:11 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
IMHO, many things are "hidden in plain sight" because I didn't have the frame of reference to see it.

I like the tell them what you are going to show them, show them, and tell them what you showed them. I would also suggest if they showed us again, we might just see it now that its been pointed out what I am looking for/it. Not a great thief (steal this technique).

I look forward to your video.

dbotari 01-08-2008 01:14 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Budd,

I sent you a PM.

Thanks,

Dan

Mike Sigman 01-08-2008 01:16 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 196954)
IMHO, many things are "hidden in plain sight" because I didn't have the frame of reference to see it.

True for me, too. I certainly saw some explicitly "kokyu" things when I took karate on Okinawa. However, I never heard the word "ki" in the martial context (bearing in mind that "ki", as I heard it in Japanese and Hogan, is a common expression) until I started taking Aikido many years later. So I also immediately interpretted what I saw in terms of what I knew about physiology, etc.

On the other hand, as much information-exchange as there is nowadays, I don't think everything falls into that same category. I was commenting to a friend of mine about how aptly Saul Bellow's quote could be applied to a lot of the martial arts: "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." ;)
Quote:

I like the tell them what you are going to show them, show them, and tell them what you showed them. I would also suggest if they showed us again, we might just see it now that its been pointed out what I am looking for/it. Not a great thief (steal this technique).

I look forward to your video.
No video coming out, Lynn. I'm going to have some of the workshop stuff videoed as an additional memory-support for the attendees, but hopefully they'll keep it to themselves. At least for the traditional week or two. ;)

Best.

Mike

gdandscompserv 01-08-2008 07:45 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote: (Post 196957)
True for me, too. I certainly saw some explicitly "kokyu" things when I took karate on Okinawa. However, I never heard the word "ki" in the martial context (bearing in mind that "ki", as I heard it in Japanese and Hogan,

Did you mean Hogen?

Kevin Leavitt 01-08-2008 07:52 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Mike,

I will be there. Any thing I (We) can do in the interim that will make it more productive for us once we are there?

MikeLogan 01-08-2008 08:22 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
If by any chance this seminar is moved 1 week earlier/later I would greatly appreciate the chance to attend. On the 8th & 9th I am out of luck.

Enjoy, and perhaps next time.

michael.

SeiserL 01-09-2008 06:57 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Kevin Leavitt wrote: (Post 196975)
I will be there. Any thing I (We) can do in the interim that will make it more productive for us once we are there?

I look forward to your review.

SeiserL 01-09-2008 06:59 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote: (Post 196957)
No video coming out, Lynn. I'm going to have some of the workshop stuff videoed as an additional memory-support for the attendees, but hopefully they'll keep it to themselves. At least for the traditional week or two.

Our loss.
I'll have to content myself with your old push hands tapes.
Perhaps another day.

Mike Sigman 01-09-2008 08:09 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Kevin Leavitt wrote: (Post 196975)
I will be there. Any thing I (We) can do in the interim that will make it more productive for us once we are there?

Not really, Kevin. Just come in with the idea that it's some new topic, not an adjunct of something you already know. My main worry is brain fatigue and trying to download a lot of information before that brain fatigue begins to win out. Keeping blood sugar up, even though we won't be working physically hard, will help keep the brain-fade at bay.

Everyone will have some demonstrable skills when they leave, but of course those will just be on a par with any new martial skills.... they're not going to be up to any really useable level until the person takes them home and works on them for a while.

There are usually two kinds of demanding workshops. One would be a couple of days on the mat, new "techniques", lots of hard work, and a gi that weighs 20 pounds every day, just from the sweat-soaking. The other kind of hard workshop would be, for instance, learning and memorizing an entire weapon form, say about 3 times the length of the 31 jo-kata; your brain simply fries.

However, both of those workshops involve people working within more or less known skills. This workshop is going to work, for almost everyone, with new skills and at the same time build those skills up to fairly sophisticated levels of usage. It's the newness stacked on newness that tends to get a lot of people, although the people who are overly patterned with hard muscular usage can simply run into a wall sometimes, too.

So I'm suggesting that people prepare for being relaxed, alert and also think over the idea of defeating any strongly-patterned muscular habits. But I'll do as much as I can to point out where the muscle problems lie, as we work our way through a logical approach.

Just for fun, here's a simple exercise for people to try; the general principle will be very germane to the workshop. Stand on one leg, well-balanced, near the corner of a wall. Put your fingertips against the wall and push with the fingertips so that there is about a half-pound of force going to each wall. Try to push solely with the grounded foot and not let the shoulders kick in. Watch how much the shoulders kick in, because that's the way you're used to doing things. That's just an illustration of the kinds of muscle patterning that can interfere with learning. ;)

http://www.neijia.com/FootPush.jpg

Best.

Mike

Mike Sigman 01-09-2008 08:12 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 196999)
Our loss.
I'll have to content myself with your old push hands tapes.
Perhaps another day.

Good god... if you have those, you have some collectors items. I can't remember....aren't they on wax cylinders? ;)

Best.

Mike

Kevin Leavitt 01-09-2008 07:25 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Thanks Mike, that believe it or not is very helpful! Expectations and preconceptions are important to understand and manage!

Walker 01-10-2008 12:16 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Working on ki/kokyu skills is like going to heaven... everyone loudly proclaims that they want to do it. But not yet.
I can't believe no one's commented on this. I thought the quote was, "everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die." At least as far as Ark's stuff goes, that seems more apt... :yuck:

cheers everyone, have fun storming the castle

Mike Sigman 01-10-2008 07:33 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Doug Walker wrote: (Post 197023)
I can't believe no one's commented on this. I thought the quote was, "everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die." At least as far as Ark's stuff goes, that seems more apt... :yuck:

cheers everyone, have fun storming the castle

Incidentally, from what I heard/read about Ark's workshop, I'd have to note that the PA workshop will be completely and radically different. There is more than one path up Hua Shan mountain. ;)

Best.

Mike

gdandscompserv 01-10-2008 06:35 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote: (Post 197028)
Incidentally, from what I heard/read about Ark's workshop, I'd have to note that the PA workshop will be completely and radically different. There is more than one path up Hua Shan mountain. ;)

Best.

Mike

Interestingly, it would seem that Mike, Dan, and Ark are all on different paths yet acquiring similar "internal" skills. Makes me wonder how many different ways there are to understanding these elusive skills. Also makes me wonder if it would be beneficial to mix and match training methods acquired from the three or if it would be best to pick a "style" or teacher and stick with that method. For those of you who have trained with all three, what think ye?

Mike Sigman 01-10-2008 06:37 PM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote: (Post 197028)
There is more than one path up Hua Shan mountain.

Dammit... I can't believe I used that trope. Out of fairness, let's remember that not all paths on the sides of Hua Shan lead to the top. ;)

Mike

aikilouis 01-11-2008 02:33 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Mike,
Is there a chance that you might return to Germany in the future ?

Ron Tisdale 01-11-2008 08:12 AM

Re: Workshop with Mike Sigman on Ki in Aikido
 
Hi Ricky,
I do think you have to make intelligent decisions on what you pick and choose based on certain criteria

1) Who can expose you to what in terms of reliable methods to train the different skills; who is in your area or is available by travel, what is their specialty, what can they help you with long distance if needed, etc.

2) What does your primary art call for; as in what aspects do YOU find most usefull in your art, what can you integrate, what does not fit in terms of your current basics or postural requirements

3) What are you willing to work on

Personally at this point, I've been most exposed to issues of correcting my "Frame" to be able to begin to access some of these skills. I am most interested in learning to capture someone's balance by absorbing their power and then feeding it back to them. Power releases are also of interest to me, but not as much.

I think each person has to look at these things and utilize the training methods as best they can.

Best,
Ron


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:50 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.