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-   -   Counter double-leg takedown (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12886)

bruceleesdaddy 07-11-2007 09:14 PM

Counter double-leg takedown
 
anybody know how to counter a double-leg takedown besides a sprawl-to-guillotine choke??

Keith R Lee 07-11-2007 10:37 PM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
There are much, much better places to ask that question than on Aikiweb. In fact, coming onto Aikiweb and that being your first post practically screams troll. I'll play nice at first though.

I would suggest you got to MMA.tv and hit up their BJJ or wrestling forums. There will be numerous people there who have years of training with double legs who should be able to help.

ChrisHein 07-11-2007 10:51 PM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Well there are several Aikido techniques that have the potential to help, but...

You can't just learn a technique and apply it. You must train against someone trying double legs on you. You must learn how to see what a double leg looks like in action, and feel how it takes you down. This is the only way to learn to counter something, any thing else is simply mental masturbation.

philippe willaume 07-12-2007 05:23 AM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Quote:

Alex Guo wrote: (Post 183367)
anybody know how to counter a double-leg takedown besides a sprawl-to-guillotine choke??

hello alex
fwiiw, here one version staight from 15th century wrestling.

Aber ain ringen.
Another wrestling
Item, schlach vß mitt bayden henden; vnd fall mitt bayden henden in baid knybüg, vnd züch zu dir, vnd stoß in mitt dem kopff oben für die brüst, vnd wirff in zu ruck.

Item strike out with either/both hands and fall with either/both hand on both knee-bend and drag toward you, and shoot in with the head on the top over the breast and throw him backward.
= Double leg take down

Ain bruch wider daß ringen.
A break against the wrestling
Item, also brich daß: faß in oben by dem halß vnder den yechsen, vnd leg dich fast oben vff in. Vnd tritt wol zu ruck mitt den füssen, das er dir kainen begryffen müg, so truckst du in zu der erden.

Item you break this like so: grab him above by the neck under the (jeschsen=lechzen)skull(or jaws) , and press fast over him, and take a good step backwards with the feets that may not grab/engage you, hence you drive him to the ground.
= Break against the above: you press on his neck and take a step back so he crashes on his nose whith the help of our pressure down.

that version is aiki enough by my standard but it can easily be modified to be kaiten (i.e. engaging the head the same way and getting one arm., if possible the side of the leg we have the closet to the opponent so that he can not turn it into a SLT.
basically a ie a bras à la volée wilst pushing the head down

With that kaiten we can drop straight to the floor in an arm lock (nikkio or sankio) the version with the knee in the shoulder/neck or throw him.
But to be fair they are all working on the same principle spral guillotine included.It seems that controlling the head to prevent to it come up is corner stone, how we finish it is sugar on the cake.

Now like the sprawl to guillotine it is not magical either. A good shooter will do DLT when he has a large window of opportunity to do the technique and when we will have a small window of opportunity to counter (and that makes any counter iffy).

does that make sense?
Phil

ps what Chris said still stands. it is something you really need to try

DonMagee 07-12-2007 06:36 AM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Quote:

Alex Guo wrote: (Post 183367)
anybody know how to counter a double-leg takedown besides a sprawl-to-guillotine choke??

Well you could sprawl and take the back :D

Budd 07-12-2007 07:22 AM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
There's also the sprawl, then knees and elbows! (hey, that counts as atemi)

Demetrio Cereijo 07-12-2007 07:25 AM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Judo's Tawara Gaeshi.
:)

Dazzler 07-12-2007 07:28 AM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Shank to the ribs.

Rather illegal though.

CitoMaramba 07-12-2007 08:22 AM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Colt M1911A1 waza also would be effective. Works also against a juramentado wielding a kris or kampilan charging up to lop your head off...

DonMagee 07-12-2007 08:52 AM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
I've had good success turning single leg take downs into uchi matas.

Dazzler 07-12-2007 09:04 AM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Don't know about SLT but I've found Brown sauce works very well with a BLT.

(ok...no more posts from me today ;-) )

biologylabrat 07-13-2007 03:54 PM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Quote:

Keith Lee wrote: (Post 183373)
There are much, much better places to ask that question than on Aikiweb. In fact, coming onto Aikiweb and that being your first post practically screams troll. I'll play nice at first though.

I would suggest you got to MMA.tv and hit up their BJJ or wrestling forums. There will be numerous people there who have years of training with double legs who should be able to help.

Really harsh response. I think any question is appropriate here that relates to martial arts. Opponents don't ask if an attack is within your art's framework.

ChrisHein 07-13-2007 04:13 PM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Quote:

Daren Sims wrote: (Post 183399)
Shank to the ribs.

Rather illegal though.

Quote:

Cito Maramba wrote: (Post 183404)
Colt M1911A1 waza also would be effective. Works also against a juramentado wielding a kris or kampilan charging up to lop your head off...

Spoken like true Aikidoka!

CitoMaramba 07-13-2007 04:25 PM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 183610)
Spoken like true Aikidoka!

I do recall a pony tailed Aikido nanadan who seemed to employ a lot of Colt .45 waza :D

ChrisHein 07-13-2007 05:44 PM

Re: Counter double-leg takedown
 
Aikidoka should always be armed.


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