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-   -   Different requirements (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12872)

dalen7 07-10-2007 02:01 PM

Different requirements
 
I have watched Aikido 3D and followed the requirements on it which seem to be the basic standard across america and matches the video of the 3rd dan video on this testing forum.

Seeing that I am American living in Hungary - learning in two languages I dont understand (japanese terminology and Hungarian...the former unites us as I have my list of terms handy), I have used the aikido 3D and the 3rd dan test video to help out.

Just today I got a list of requirements from our 2nd kyu (the others dont have a list and seemed interested also) - and its different.

It seems it similar in some ways, but presented a bit differently which actually helped in one aspect but in another kind of is a hinderance to the advantage I thought I had in knowing what was required of me.

Is anyone out there following a system similar to this:
- 6 kyu not 5
- There appears to be an interin phase between 1st kyu and shodan
- 6th kyu looks like this:

Tachi Waza:
Naga Waza: Ai hanmi katate tori: Irimi nage (o+u)
Kote gaeshi (o+u)
Shiho nage (o+u)
Uchikaiten nage (o+u)
Gyaku hanmi katate tori: kokyu-ho
Shiho nage
Shomen Uchi: Irimi nage (o+u)
Katame waza: Ai hanmi katate tori: Ikkyo (ude osae, o+u)
Nikyo (kote mawasi, o+u)
Sankyo (kote hineri, o+u)

So that is 6th.
Now I will know some will say: "I told you that it would mess you up studying something other than what you are there...just watch"

I will say again, that watching is fine, but at the beginning when you know no japanese and are clueless what a waza is...and its taught in a language that you dont understand - that aikido 3D and the video of the 3rd dan here at aiki web located in the testing forum, did wonders...if it wasnt for that I would still be scratching my head of what an ikkyo is. In fact I have shomenuchi ikkyo pretty much 'pinned' (pun intended)

---
My question is: If anyone has a similar testing schedule: If they are shodan and above and can tape their test that would be totally cool.

Part of what helped me out with the 3rd dan on the board is I could hear what was being called out and follow it on the 'old list' of requirements. But seeing that list is not consistent with where I am at, I need something else.

Thanks in advance

peace

Dalen

Karen Wolek 07-10-2007 02:17 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

Dalen Johnson wrote: (Post 183158)
I have watched Aikido 3D and followed the requirements on it which seem to be the basic standard across america a

Aikido 3D has the requirements for dojo in the USAF. There are several other organizations here and they all have their own requirements....not to mention independent dojo.

The only way you'll know what is required at your dojo is asking someone there. I know you don't speak the language but you could get your wife to translate; I thought I remembered you saying she could help with that sometimes.

I wouldn't really worry too much about tests though since you just started. Just practice. :)

dalen7 07-10-2007 02:26 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
O.k. - maybe this will help identify the system...
It says that for the 6th kyu that I need to learn the 4 main points/rules from Koichi Tohei. - my wife helped translate from the requirement sheet for me - however the 4 points are listed. :)

Peace

Dalen

who is Koichi Tohei? Seems like I heard his name. - how does this relate to aiki main system?

dalen7 07-10-2007 02:34 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

Karen Wolek wrote: (Post 183161)
I wouldn't really worry too much about tests though since you just started. Just practice. :)

Yes, my wife does help - at the same time its pretty busy as we have 4 kids. ;) (and translating concepts is interesting...a new person just came and they are having a hard time - in their own language - getting some of the points...again, thats normal as its completely new. For me I never had any involvement with martial arts - with the exception of some boxing. But now I do see a difference and things flow a bit smoother.)

As for the test, it helps me when I see and know what is required.
Just me and my personality or how I learn. But if I hadnt taken the initiative that I had so far, as mentioned, I would have quit.

It helps me to be focused, especially when I only get to practice twice a week. But I do appreciate the encouragement.
---
by the way...it looks like i need to know the following also...if there are any links or videos showing this it would help. (maybe its on my aikdio dvd)

- Shizentai, Hidari-kamae, Migi-kamae,
- Irimi, Tai sabaki, Ushiro tenkan, Kaiten ashi
- Ukemi: Ushirio ukemi, Mae ukemi

Peace

Dalen

Karen Wolek 07-10-2007 02:53 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

Dalen Johnson wrote: (Post 183166)
who is Koichi Tohei? Seems like I heard his name. - how does this relate to aiki main system?

http://www.ki-society.com/english/re...dokai_001.html

If your dojo is Ki Society, it may be quite different from your Aikido 3D program.

Nafis Zahir 07-10-2007 02:54 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

Dalen Johnson wrote: (Post 183166)
O.k. - maybe this will help identify the system...
It says that for the 6th kyu that I need to learn the 4 main points/rules from Koichi Tohei. - my wife helped translate from the requirement sheet for me - however the 4 points are listed. :)

Peace

Dalen

who is Koichi Tohei? Seems like I heard his name. - how does this relate to aiki main system?

Koichi Tohei was the founder of the Ki Society. I don't want to write a long history here, but you can go to aikidojournal.com and look it up for yourself. You may be at a Ki Society dojo and you really need to communicate with your instructor.

dalen7 07-10-2007 02:59 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

Nafis Zahir wrote: (Post 183175)
You may be at a Ki Society dojo and you really need to communicate with your instructor.

With over 15 people its not as easy as just pulling him aside...and again there is the language issue, and yes I have already dragged my wife into it as it is (remember we have 4 kids).

And when we do communicate, remember I came from knowing nothing about it...and trying to get a good grip of it at once isnt easy. But thanks to the kind folks here at aikiweb (thumbs up) and to the training videos I have found, it has helped tremendously.

Kind of a unique endeavor learning in a language that you dont understand, and they dont understand you. (not alone...but unique)

But as for Ki Society...who knows - they dont do anything out of the ordinary associated with what I read - and they are not listed as one on the main ki society page...

But...anyone familar with this: it would help -
- Shizentai, Hidari-kamae, Migi-kamae,
- Irimi, Tai sabaki, Ushiro tenkan, Kaiten ashi
- Ukemi: Ushirio ukemi, Mae ukemi

Peace

Dalen

dalen7 07-10-2007 03:01 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

Karen Wolek wrote: (Post 183174)
http://www.ki-society.com/english/re...dokai_001.html

If your dojo is Ki Society, it may be quite different from your Aikido 3D program.

thanks Karen...I knew I heard his name (sorry all these japanes terms/names as well as trying to learn Hungarian has my head swimming. :)

Infact I wrote about the unbendable arm in another forum. Doh!

I appreciate you guys replies...if anyone is familar with the list of requirements for 6th kyu that I posted as well as some of the other requirements, I would love to hear from you. (but perhaps this is just a hungarian things) :-)

Peace

dalen7 07-10-2007 03:57 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
So to summarize what I have found out about the requirements (to see if anyone has something similar)

- 6th kyu looks like this:

Tachi Waza:
Naga Waza: Ai hanmi katate tori: Irimi nage (o+u)
Kote gaeshi (o+u)
Shiho nage (o+u)
Uchikaiten nage (o+u)
Gyaku hanmi katate tori: kokyu-ho
Shiho nage
Shomen Uchi: Irimi nage (o+u)
Katame waza: Ai hanmi katate tori: Ikkyo (ude osae, o+u)
Nikyo (kote mawasi, o+u)
Sankyo (kote hineri, o+u)

- Shizentai, Hidari-kamae, Migi-kamae,
- Irimi, Tai sabaki, Ushiro tenkan, Kaiten ashi
- Ukemi: Ushirio ukemi, Mae ukemi

- know the 4 concepts from Koichi Tohei
(from the U.k. ki-aikido site it has 5, and I dont think this is a traditional ki aikido place Im at by any means)

and on the page between Kyu 1 and shodan it says:

- Sensei Nobujosi Tamura (things you need to know: 1 kyura)
So yet another Sensei...maybe he is connected to Koichi Tohei...maybe not.

------
Any Hungarians out there that want to chip in?
I know your out there. ;)

Peace

Dalen

Shipley 07-10-2007 06:13 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
- Shizentai, Hidari-kamae, Migi-kamae,
- Irimi, Tai sabaki, Ushiro tenkan, Kaiten ashi
- Ukemi: Ushirio ukemi, Mae ukemi

- Neutral stance (feet under shoulders, left triangular stance, right triangular stance

-entering, basic footwork, turning to the back, I'm not sure about kaiten ashi, but it might be shuffling forward

- Receiving technique, back fall, front fall

Hope this helps,

Paul

aikidoc 07-10-2007 06:50 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
If you tell us who your instructor is (Tamas?) and who his instructor is then it would be easy to tell your style. There are several aikikai styles in Hungary-go to the dojo search function.

yosushi 07-10-2007 07:56 PM

Re: Different requirements
 
If you are in a Ki society dojo, you will have to learn the 4 Ki principles and also 5 aikido principles.
I could be wrong, but I think they were established by Koichi Tohei (founder of Ki society and previous technical director of Aikikai).

They are all interrelated and you can develop a better understanding of aikido through their studies, as well as relaxing more in daily life. They are the principles underlying all aikido.

Ki principles / Principles for mind and body coordination
Or in japanese, Shinshin Toitsu no yondai gensoku ( mind-body unification `s 4 great principles )

1-Keep one point
2-Relax completely
3-Keep weight underside ( or "Have a light feeling" in Ki Federation of Great Britain )
4-Extend Ki

In japanese
1-seika no itten ni kokoro o shizume touitsu suru
2-zenshin no chikara o kanzen ni nuku
3-karada no subete no bubun no omomi o, sono saikabu ni oku
4-ki o dasu

5 Aikido Principles
Shinshin touitsu aikido no go gensoku
(mind/body unification for aikido`s 5 principles)

1-Extending Ki
2-Know your partner`s mind
3-Respect your partner`s ki
4-Put yourself in your partner`s place
5-Perform with confidence

In japanese
1-ki ga dete iru
2-aite no kokoro o shiru
3-aite no ki o tatobu
4-aite no tachiba ni tatsu
5-sossenkyuukou

Note how you can progress from principle 1, extending ki, feeling around yourself, finding someone there, learning/knowing his mind, seeing and respecting how he is extending his ki/will, then putting yourself in his place to understand what he will do, then doing your technique with confidence...
That`s my understanding at the moment.
There are many different grading syllabus out there and different words for each technique ( different japanese names and also english translations).
Having changed country and dojo, I`m struggling sometimes, adapting from one syllabus to the other
(and more importantly, having fun with nice people whatever the dojo I practice in).

Good luck making sense of your syllabus.

I hope this helps,
have a good day and great practices !

dalen7 07-11-2007 03:14 AM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

Lionel Moulas wrote: (Post 183221)
If you are in a Ki society dojo, you will have to learn the 4 Ki principles and also 5 aikido principles.
Good luck making sense of your syllabus.

I hope this helps,
have a good day and great practices !

Thanks, I totally appreciate the reply...

Peace

Dalen

dalen7 07-11-2007 03:15 AM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

Paul Shipley wrote: (Post 183211)
- Shizentai, Hidari-kamae, Migi-kamae,
- Irimi, Tai sabaki, Ushiro tenkan, Kaiten ashi
- Ukemi: Ushirio ukemi, Mae ukemi

- Neutral stance (feet under shoulders, left triangular stance, right triangular stance

-entering, basic footwork, turning to the back, I'm not sure about kaiten ashi, but it might be shuffling forward

- Receiving technique, back fall, front fall

Hope this helps,

Paul

Yes Paul, it helps a lot - thanks

Peace

Dalen

dalen7 07-11-2007 03:21 AM

Re: Different requirements
 
Quote:

John Riggs wrote: (Post 183219)
If you tell us who your instructor is (Tamas?) and who his instructor is then it would be easy to tell your style. There are several aikikai styles in Hungary-go to the dojo search function.

Thanks, and true. Im the one that actually submitted Tamas in the directory. :)

His instructor is a 4th Dan - Imre Marton (he also is some top level karate guy in Hungary too...) Problem is this sensei appears to only do seminars, and I have found next to nothing about him on the web.
(Infact we will have a 3 day seminar with Imre Marton next week)

I thought there might be some Hungarians lurking on the board here who speak English and practice aikido - that might know (based on the fact that there are Hungarian dojos listed in the aiki directory beyond what I listed.)

None the less, I do appreciate everyones comments/input - its helping me put the pieces together.

Peace

Dalen


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