AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   Language (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   "Doka" (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12275)

mjhacker 03-29-2007 11:15 AM

Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 173897)
BRAVO!!!!!!! DIG DEEPER,DOKA!:)

Jennifer,

I've seen you use the term "doka" on a couple of occasions. I'm confused as to what you mean by it.

Michael

jennifer paige smith 03-29-2007 12:06 PM

Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido
 
Quote:

Michael Hacker wrote: (Post 173898)
Jennifer,

I've seen you use the term "doka" on a couple of occasions. I'm confused as to what you mean by it.

Michael

Hello Michael,
The word doka refers to 'songs of the way' or living poetic teaching. Aikidoists are also often refered to as Aikidoka. O'Sensei was such a language player, and in that vein I have come to use the word 'doka' to refer to ourselves as the 'living songs of the way.' It is an accurate, albeit, poetic interpretation. I feel like a vibrational song of this great path whenever i practice or reflect on my path. It is an amazingly powerful sensation. So, there's my definition.;)

mjhacker 03-29-2007 12:08 PM

Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 173912)
Hello Michael,
The word doka refers to 'songs of the way' or living poetic teaching. Aikidoists are also often refered to as Aikidoka. O'Sensei was such a language player, and in that vein I have come to use the word 'doka' to refer to ourselves as the 'living songs of the way.' It is an accurate, albeit, poetic interpretation. I feel like a vibrational song of this great path whenever i practice or reflect on my path. It is an amazingly powerful sensation. So, there's my definition.;)

Interesting.

Thanks for the clarification.

Ron Tisdale 03-29-2007 03:08 PM

Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido
 
Accurate? Anyone here know the kanji for aikidoka vs the kanji for doka? I'm betting they are not the same. And Ueshiba Sensei is not likely to have made a pun on the romanji (or however that would be stated...)

Best,
Ron

Mashu 03-29-2007 03:56 PM

Re: "Doka"
 
合気道家 aikidouka

道歌 douka

----------------------------------
天漢 tenkan

癲癇 tenkan

道家 douka

:-)

Ron Tisdale 03-29-2007 04:04 PM

Re: "Doka"
 
Thanks Mathew...care to add a little explanation to go with the kanji? For instance what is the difference between the ones above vs the ones below the line?

Thanks,
Ron

Mashu 03-29-2007 04:08 PM

Re: "Doka"
 
合気道家 aikidouka<-- last two are way and practitioner.

道歌 douka<-- these two are way and song.

----------------------------------
天漢 tenkan<-- this tenkan is Milky Way
癲癇 tenkan<--this tenkan is epileptic fit

道家 douka<-- this douka is Taoist

:-)

mjhacker 03-29-2007 05:37 PM

Re: "Doka"
 
Odd... I don't remember starting a thread. Anyhoo...

Linguistically, the reference would be completely lost on a native Japanese speaker.

Perhaps I'm a bit too much of a language nazi for my own good.

batemanb 03-30-2007 05:34 AM

Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 173912)
.......It is an accurate, albeit, poetic interpretation.......

More a poetic interpretation methinks, but highly unlikely accurate:)

I'm far from a language expert in Japanese but the "doka" in "doka is completely different to the "doka" in "aikidoka". As Matthew has already iterated, "doka" on it's own means song, whilst "aikidoka" is actually adding the word "ka" (professional) to Aikido, i.e. a professional aikido person.

See these old threads for discussions on the use of "aikidoka".

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...a+professional

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...a+professional

rgds
Bryan

jennifer paige smith 03-30-2007 09:03 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
Well then, you don't need to use it this way.

The kanji routine is always fun. Ai and Ai.
hi michael:)

mjhacker 03-30-2007 09:40 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 174035)
Well then, you don't need to use it this way.

Gee, thanks for your permission. :-p

Quote:

The kanji routine is always fun. Ai and Ai.
Oh, believe me... I'm quite the punster in Japanese.

Quote:

hi michael:)
Hi back atcha. Are we still on for lunch next time I'm up there?

Ron Tisdale 03-30-2007 10:15 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the tips. You didn't start a new thread, Jun did when I strayed off topic! :blush:

Best,
Ron

mjhacker 03-30-2007 10:27 AM

Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido
 
Quote:

Bryan Bateman wrote: (Post 174015)
...whilst "aikidoka" is actually adding the word "ka" (professional) to Aikido, i.e. a professional aikido person.

I think you make an excellent point here... one which, I think, is generally not understood by Aikidō people who don't speak Japanese. The suffix -ka suggests a degree of seriousness and accomplishment in one's pursuit.

家 (ka/ke) means "house" or "family." As such, it shows that you're considered by the family to be one of them. I think that's significant.

When referring, for instance, to the Ueshiba family, you could say 植芝家 (Ueshiba-ke), whereas a serious Aikidō practitioner would be 合気道家 (Aikidō-ka). There may be a bit of poetic license involved in translating Aikidō-ka as being part of an "Aikidō family," but poetic license never kilt nobody. (A poetic license to kill, on the other hand...)

It is, IMO, just as improper for an writing enthusiast to refer to himself as an author (作家 sak-ka) as it is for a relatively junior Aikidō student to refer to him or herself as an Aikidō-ka. Maybe this all just boils down to cultural-linguistic differences.

Or... maybe I'm just too serious about this language stuff. :-)

mjhacker 03-30-2007 10:29 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote: (Post 174050)
Thanks for the tips.

I gave tips??? Crap. Sorry 'bout that.

Quote:

You didn't start a new thread, Jun did when I strayed off topic!
Why does it always seem like that Jun guy is spying on me... O_o

jennifer paige smith 04-01-2007 01:36 PM

Re: "Doka"
 
Quote:

Michael Hacker wrote: (Post 174046)
Gee, thanks for your permission.
Certainly not permission. Unless it is'per' your 'mission' Anyone who doesn't like something for themselves is free to ignore it..:-p

Oh, believe me... I'm quite the punster in Japanese.
Believe me, I believe you.

Hi back atcha. Are we still on for lunch next time I'm up there?

Si, Senor. Tacos?

mjhacker 04-01-2007 01:40 PM

Re: "Doka"
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 174264)
Si, Senor. Tacos?

You'd feed Califnornia Tacos to a man visiting from Arizona??

How cruel...

Kent Enfield 04-01-2007 08:50 PM

Re: "Doka"
 
Quote:

Michael Hacker wrote: (Post 174266)
You'd feed Califnornia Tacos to a man visiting from Arizona??

How cruel...

It'd ruin ya for Arizona ones, right? ;)

(If only I could get some even half-way decent tacos . . . I'll just have to settle for tako. It ain't bad, but it sure ain't the same.)

batemanb 04-02-2007 01:20 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
Quote:

Kent Enfield wrote: (Post 174296)
...... I'll just have to settle for tako. It ain't bad, but it sure ain't the same......

I'll be landing in Japan first thing Wednesday morning, tako is one of the foods I most look forward to whenever I'm there :) (no smiley for "YUM")

mjhacker 04-02-2007 01:23 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
Quote:

Kent Enfield wrote: (Post 174296)
I'll just have to settle for tako. It ain't bad, but it sure ain't the same.)

I got a Mexican buddy with that once in Aomori... "Hey Jesse, want some tako?"

As it turns out, the joke was on me... that boy would eat ANYTHING. He didn't even pause. Took one look at it, shrugged, and downed it all. Then he went back for seconds.

gdandscompserv 04-02-2007 07:23 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
mayo tako yaki...mmm

jennifer paige smith 04-06-2007 11:46 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
easily amused Doka.:)

jennifer paige smith 04-06-2007 11:49 AM

Re: "Doka"
 
Quote:

Michael Hacker wrote: (Post 174266)
You'd feed Califnornia Tacos to a man visiting from Arizona??

How cruel...

I'm fairly sure I couldn't provide CalifNornia tacos to anyone. :D

Eddie Heinzelman 04-09-2007 05:21 PM

Re: "Doka"
 
I understand it as Michael Hacker explained above. Karateka, Aikidoka, Jujitsuka, etc. are those who are practicioners of that particular art.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:11 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.