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-   -   Hakama and Obi tying. . . (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12253)

msorses 03-27-2007 05:20 PM

Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Hi there,

Just got back from training and one of the other Yudansha was wearing his obi on the outside of his hakama, is there any formal stance on this? Personally I think it is a good idea as it stops the age old problem of the hakama 'slipping' down - or is there another way to stop this from happening?

Thoughts would be great on this one.

gdandscompserv 03-27-2007 06:08 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Non-traditional I would say but outside of Japan I don't think it matters much. At Okinawa Aikikai, males were expected to wear hakama when they were shodan and females when they were 4th kyu (I think). I don't really care to wear my hakama here in America. I just find it a bother. Everybody tying it in neat little bows and folding it ever so carefully. Haven't worn mine for some time now and it doesn't seem to have had much impact on my aikido. Hakama's are cool though.:cool:

ChrisMoses 03-27-2007 06:16 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Quote:

Chris Mitchell wrote: (Post 173690)
Hi there,

Just got back from training and one of the other Yudansha was wearing his obi on the outside of his hakama, is there any formal stance on this? Personally I think it is a good idea as it stops the age old problem of the hakama 'slipping' down - or is there another way to stop this from happening?

Thoughts would be great on this one.

Serious violation of fashion police guidelines for hakama use in aikido. There are a *couple* ryuha that do this in Japan (all non-aikido), but generally it would be like wearing your superman underoos over your jeans. :yuck:

Jill N 03-28-2007 11:32 AM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Tuck the front part of your hakama behind your obi, then tie it on tight. That works for me, but I do have an extended front hakama (and I put a piece of velcro on the inside to attach it around my obi, but don't tell anyone! The fashion police will take me away.)

e ya later
Jill

James Davis 03-28-2007 12:06 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Quote:

Jill Nielsen wrote: (Post 173755)
(and I put a piece of velcro on the inside to attach it around my obi, but don't tell anyone! The fashion police will take me away.)

e ya later
Jill

CHEATER!!!:eek:

msorses 03-29-2007 03:21 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Ricky - yeah, they are cool and no, they don't make you any better. They are a pain in the butt though when you first have to wear one as there are certain thing we (as men) take for granted: walking up stairs, crouching down etc when catching the hakama under feet! Plus, if you wear your gi bottoms under them it is a bummer if you need to loo quickly :grr:

Chris - Fair point, although, I do have a photo of my little monster in his white baby grow with his red swimming trunks worn on the outside, so no matter how ridiculous I look, I have one up on him! Ok, ok, so he isn't even a year old yet! :rolleyes:

Jill - I agree, thats cheating haha but I like your style! :D

Chris

crbateman 03-29-2007 07:39 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Quote:

Jill Nielsen wrote: (Post 173755)
...and I put a piece of velcro on the inside to attach it around my obi...

Technology meets Tradition!!! :D

ChrisHein 03-30-2007 12:41 AM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
I've taken to not wearing my belt at all. The belt makes my Hakama look silly, and it's way more comfortable to not have on.

msorses 03-30-2007 03:35 AM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 174005)
I've taken to not wearing my belt at all. The belt makes my Hakama look silly, and it's way more comfortable to not have on.

Hi Chris,

Yeah, I know where you are coming from on that one, kinda makes you look a bit excited through the lesson :o but I have seen people wear their belt in a slightly different configuration with a flat/tape 'knot' to the side (I forget the name as I was never a boy scout and yeah, I know that in some traditional schools, wearing the belt to the side had a significant meaning)

Chris

dragonteeth 03-30-2007 08:09 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
I've toyed with the idea of wearing my obi on the outside, but my reason is different. In our dojo, hakama are optional until shodan. Our chief instructor (a long time friend from a previous aiki-jitsu dojo years ago) knew I had a hakama coming into the class, and insisted that I wear it, even though no one under shodan was currently wearing one. Honestly, I feel more comfortable wearing it because of the lower back support it provides and the extra warmth it gives my cantankerous old joints. And from a personal standpoint, when I found out that O-Sensei wanted everyone to wear hakama in his dojo, I wanted to wear it to honor his wishes.

But there's a downside. Where I'm the only kohai wearing one, and where my obi is buried beneath the miles of himo that Bujin provides, some new students get confused and think I'm yudansha. Even after they know, for some reason (subliminal) they tend to give me more respect and clout than I deserve at this point in my training.

So I have honestly thought about wearing my white obi on the outside until I reach at least 2nd kyu (all students below 2nd wear white in our class, then brown until shodan) just to cut down on the confusion. I would appreciate any thoughts on this, and any alternatives you might have to offer!

Thanks to all,
Lori

msorses 03-31-2007 07:17 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Hi Lori,

Interesting! I can understand where you are coming from, I know that most of the clubs/schools I have trained with have only allowed yudansha to wear hakama, but I know that in some, women are allowed to wear them regardless of rank, and in some, all are to wear them! Now looking back into why we wear the hakama it is very interesting, not overly practical but that also depends on the way you look at the reason why we wear them, but interesting all the same! Although not so traditional, I think that if your instructor has insisted that you wear it and you are happy to do so that you you do, although the grading thing may be an issue, again, non-traditional, but if you were to wear your obi on the outside then this would at least allow others training with you to see that you are not yudansha and therefore not pound you into the mat as they may do otherwise (speaking from a 'Yoshinkan' perspective here lol). In my opinion, and so be it if I get slapped on this one, I think you are in an honoured position to wear a hakama at your stage and if all are happy then go ahead and so so. From my personal teaching experience, I would not allow it, maybe because I wouldn't want to break rules, maybe because I wouldn't want and injury caused from confusion, but thats just my own opinion. More importantly, I think you should have some way of letting the other students know you are not yudansha as you could put yourself at risk of injury maybe?

Bottom line, Hakama rule, although they are hard work, I see mileage in the benefit they gave me in re-learning footwork etc.

Chris

JAMJTX 04-08-2007 03:58 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Quote:

Chris Mitchell wrote: (Post 173690)
Hi there,

...one of the other Yudansha was wearing his obi on the outside of his hakama, is there any formal stance on this? ....

The only place I have seen people doing this is in the Hakko Ryu community, but I don't know where or how this got started. I do know it is something that started in Japan and is common among western practitioners.

msorses 04-09-2007 04:10 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
Quote:

Jim McCoy wrote: (Post 174934)
The only place I have seen people doing this is in the Hakko Ryu community, but I don't know where or how this got started. I do know it is something that started in Japan and is common among western practitioners.

Thanks Jim and everyone else. The replies have given me more information than I was expecting.

Domo arigato gozaimashita!

Chris

rodrigo1508 04-11-2007 01:28 AM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
My sensei use a kaku obi instead of a normal obi underneath the hakama and he says its more comfortable

mriehle 04-11-2007 05:59 PM

Re: Hakama and Obi tying. . .
 
This discussion has convinced me that I need to hurry up and get my velcro hakama.

All these belts and ties and stuff are a nuisance. Veclro is the way to go.

Mind you, I couldn't help noticing that my friend - who holds the patent for the velcro hakama - wore a traditional hakama with a belt while he was in Japan.

Still, I'm counting the days...


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