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-   -   Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11430)

AikiWeb System 12-10-2006 01:30 AM

Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
AikiWeb Poll for the week of December 10, 2006:

How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Always
  • Often
  • Sometimes
  • Seldom
  • Never
Here are the current results.

sullivanw 12-10-2006 09:42 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
When I first began training I was exhausted after nearly every class. Now it happens less often, I think because: a) I have been relaxing more and not muscling everything and b) I have learned more about breathing well. And then there are classes like this past Friday, when I was one of three unranked students in our dojo cho's class - which was full of yudansha. I had no chance of keeping up.

RoyK 12-11-2006 03:07 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
My instructor specifically believes in making us work hard. Before class even starts we roll to the point of exhaustion, then work on ashi sabaki, te sabaki and tai sabaki to a new point of exhaustion, then sometimes we solo practice bokken or jo until our hands drop, and then class starts.
After class he asks for volunteers to stay for 15 minutes of physical workout that makes our warmup seem like a pleasant, distant memory.

SeiserL 12-11-2006 06:50 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
I try to train to 90% exhaustion every time.
IMHO, to train to 100% or beyond is asking for injury.
But that 90% is a lot farther than I thought it was on most days.

pezalinski 12-11-2006 01:03 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
:D Not often enough.

Opportunities to work out that hard for that extended a period of time don't come often. It takes back-to-back advanced Yudansha classes or a seminar or summer camp to get that kind of workout anymore, at least for me. Or helping others prep for a kyu or dan test.

Mark Freeman 12-11-2006 05:45 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
I voted 'sometimes' and have just got home from one of those 'sometimes' at my weekly high grade lesson. I'm absolutely 'knackered' and my face is still aching from the big grin :D :D

regards,

Mark

Michael Hackett 12-11-2006 06:10 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
When I voted, I interpreted "exhausted" pretty literally and voted "never". I've been so thrashed on many occasions that I had very little left and once I had to run outside quickly and vomit. I admit to being worn out and so tired I wanted nothing more than to crawl off into a corner, but never so badly I didn't have one more fall or rep left in me. Sounds like symantics and not endurance as what many of you have described is what I've experienced too. Great, ain't it?

sullivanw 12-12-2006 04:54 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
Quote:

Michael Hackett wrote:
When I voted, I interpreted "exhausted" pretty literally and voted "never". I've been so thrashed on many occasions that I had very little left and once I had to run outside quickly and vomit. I admit to being worn out and so tired I wanted nothing more than to crawl off into a corner, but never so badly I didn't have one more fall or rep left in me. Sounds like symantics and not endurance as what many of you have described is what I've experienced too. Great, ain't it?

That's like the interpretation that I have, i.e exhaustion being the physical state where I have to consciously will my body to get up (move) when it would rather just stay put. Those times seem to be more rare, and often I think because of an awareness of how much energy I can handle receiving back without risking long-term injury. So many details to work on...

-Will

pointy 12-12-2006 11:43 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
i would love to get exhausted on a regular basis, it just doesnt happen enough anymore. im helping someone prepare for a dan test, ive been doing hour long sessions of taking ukemi, constant breakfalls, etc - that barely did anything to me. i miss it! i feel like im bragging, im not...if i were to go to a judo school and have to do push ups and all that kind of thing before class, now that would be really tiring since i never do that stuff

i think we get used to the amount of workout we get, possibly the limit of what an aikido class can offer. then we have to pass that in order to really get tired, it just isnt going to happen if youre already used to what's happening in the span of a class. unless new things get added to the training.

what does tire me out though is the standing with all my weight on one leg for a minute or 2 kind of things we do sometimes. like to build a foundation for how to place your weight. those i feel at night when im stretching out in bed, etc but they dont tend to exhaust me all over, i just feel it in my legs later. my hands might get really tired after a lot of training too...

Amir Krause 12-13-2006 04:51 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
We do it sometimes, used to do it more but in the last couple of years, we actually do it less (or perhaps I am getting better and use less physical effort while practicing ?).


One should remember that being exhausted, just like working very fast and with "full force" is not the right approach for learning. It is only good for testing what you already know and getting a feedback, improving the points you have identified and finessing your movements is done much better when practicing in full alertness and energy, and then doing it slowly with attention to any minor detail.


Amir

Peter Goldsbury 12-13-2006 05:39 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
If you do marathon running with a group, as I did when I first started aikido, these issues always arise.

You have no strength left, but you have to keep going; there is a major hill right in front of you and there are still x miles left to go.

So you learn to pace yourself. And the lessons learned while young are still valuable when you get older.

ian 12-14-2006 08:36 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you train until the point of exhaustion in your aikido practice?
 
I clicked seldom, but I'm not sure if my version of exaustion is the same as some of the posters here! If you train regularly to exaustion then obviously you must be very fit. I would say, at the point of exaustion I would be barely able to stand, may have uncontrollable shakes, definately feel like vomiting or shi**ing myself. I've managed to get my pulse to 220 before without feeling these syptoms. Ueshiba used to do bokken cuts 'till he passed out. That to me is exaustion. Feeling out of breath is just being unfit. Similarly feeling like you want to stop but don't could be at various levels of intensity (maybe that night you're just unenthusiatic).

I'd agree with previous posts, that training to exaustion is not always beneficial for skills learning. However often during gradings I don't start the grading until the student is close to exaustion - in this way I can see what their body can do under stress, rather than see what their mind can do when they are thinking about the techniques. Also helps build up psychological determination.

P.S. we've started doing 3 mins of striking on the focus mits pretty much each week) which is very tiring. One of my students looked like he was dying he was so exausted (bent over, deathly pale) and I shouted 'go on, hurt the b***tard' - to my suprise he suddenly perked up and hit harder and faster than I've ever seen anyone hit before or since!


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