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-   -   man, it's tough! (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11191)

Luc X Saroufim 10-25-2006 06:57 AM

man, it's tough!
 
a new student shows up at our dojo, and he's unbelieveable! without going into any detail, it only takes a few techniques to see he's going to be a natural.

i grasp the opportunity to work with him last night, because i've always loved teaching. no matter how much, or how little, i can contribute, i love sharing knowledge.

anyway, it turned out that he was the teacher, and i was the student. i was learning from him all night. i learned that i did not understand the techniques as deeply as i thought, because i could not answer all his questions. i learned that i still rely on "robotic" movement of my uke, because when he got confused on how to be an uke, i got confused as a nage. i learned to stop relying on laurels and assumptions, and start showing up with an empty cup.

and i learned what my Sensei truly meant when she said: "it's when you start teaching that you truly start learning".

maybe one day, i'll learn to capitalize my "i's"

ian 10-25-2006 07:09 AM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
Totally agree. I've only been teaching for about 4 years, but doing something and trying to explain why and how you are doing something are completely different things!

I used to do a funny joke sometimes with a particular student in demonstrations. I always knew he would try and resist the technique i would try to put on so I would always say the converse of the technique I was actually going to do! e.g. I would say I was going to do morote-dori kokyu-nage/sokumen irimi-nage. As he leaned his full weight on my arm holding it down, I would just do kaiten-nage - it would always look like I'd done the most perfect throw, just because I could predict where he was going to apply the force!

RampantWolf 10-25-2006 07:28 AM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
When I was taking a newbie class (not Aikido) I noticed that my fighting actually got a lot better. I believe this was because I was not only back to practising the basics for an hour a night but I had to really make sure I got them right. Otherwise I would pass along my technique which, over the years of not practising the basics, had become somewhat less than perfect.

It just reinforces that you have to have a solid foundation if you want anything you build on it to stand up.

Cheers

James Davis 10-25-2006 10:33 AM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
Quote:

Ian Dodkins wrote:
Totally agree. I've only been teaching for about 4 years, but doing something and trying to explain why and how you are doing something are completely different things!

I used to do a funny joke sometimes with a particular student in demonstrations. I always knew he would try and resist the technique i would try to put on so I would always say the converse of the technique I was actually going to do! e.g. I would say I was going to do morote-dori kokyu-nage/sokumen irimi-nage. As he leaned his full weight on my arm holding it down, I would just do kaiten-nage - it would always look like I'd done the most perfect throw, just because I could predict where he was going to apply the force!

I have a student just like yours! :) I can't tell him what I'm going to do, or he'll try to resist. If I throw him twice with the same technique, the third time will fail.

Perhaps you need to have the same talk with your student as I just recently had with mine.

I told my student that every student in the dojo was learning from him too, not just me, and that he should show them how to do ukemi safely.

If I throw him with four different techniques by adapting to what he gives, then my aikido is alright...

but how will everyone else know what to work on?

DonMagee 10-25-2006 12:09 PM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
Fresh blood is always the best thing for pointing you back on the right path. This is why I love new people, they keep the group think down and keep you on your toes.

raul rodrigo 10-25-2006 09:39 PM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
I agree with Mr. Davis, adapting to what an uncooperative uke give you is a great test for your own aikido, but its not so good if you happen to be teaching at the time. Recently an uke tried to resist during morotedori kokyunage and I brought him down another way without thinking. But it was tough to explain to the class exactly what I did, since it was a little above what we were currently working on.

Luc X Saroufim 10-26-2006 07:20 AM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
Quote:

Raul Rodrigo wrote:
I agree with Mr. Davis, adapting to what an uncooperative uke give you is a great test for your own aikido, but its not so good if you happen to be teaching at the time. Recently an uke tried to resist during morotedori kokyunage and I brought him down another way without thinking. But it was tough to explain to the class exactly what I did, since it was a little above what we were currently working on.

i agree 100% with this statment.

L. Camejo 10-26-2006 11:36 AM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
I think it's the instructor's duty to select Uke that will competently assist in teaching the required principle that is being dealt with during the session. This includes their level of ukemi, relaxation levels and ability to adapt to sudden unknown movement changes without losing balance easily etc. If I am teaching a class and my Uke continuously resists my technique during instruction for no other reason than a test of strength/wills then this to me is a serious discipline problem, regardless of whether or not I throw him with another waza. I have Uke who give hard honest attacks during the teaching phase and imo this is good because if I can't do the technique on an honest predetermined attack then I probably don't understand the principle well enough to teach it anyway. This is not the same as resisting just for the hell of it imo.

During randori of course and other types of training I invite folks to resist at will, but during instruction one should understand that what is being shown is for the benefit of the entire class and by not cooperating with the lesson demo they are not only cheating their partners from learning something they are also cheating themselves from developing good ukemi skills. At last night's session we worked precisely on this by showing how an improved level of ukemi is necessary for effective application of kaeshiwaza in a resistance-based environment. I think it drove home the importance of Uke's role (especially relaxation and timing) to those who liked to resist everything.

Just my 5 cents.
LC:ai::ki:

odudog 10-26-2006 12:43 PM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
Quote:

Larry Camejo wrote:
I think it's the instructor's duty to select Uke that will competently assist in teaching the required principle that is being dealt with during the session. This includes their level of ukemi, relaxation levels and ability to adapt to sudden unknown movement changes without losing balance easily etc. If I am teaching a class and my Uke continuously resists my technique during instruction for no other reason than a test of strength/wills then this to me is a serious discipline problem, regardless of whether or not I throw him with another waza. .....LC:ai::ki:

I have an instructor that always tells us about one seminar that he went to. A high degree black belt from the NE of USA was invited to teach. He called out a black belt to be his uke so as to demonstrate a particular technique. Well, the uke was deliberately trying to stop the technique in a bid to show who was better. Instead of changing to another technique that would have worked against the pressure that was given, the visiting instructor just waved the guy off the mat and called up another black belt for the technique demonstration.

James Davis 10-26-2006 04:30 PM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
Quote:

Mike Braxton wrote:
I have an instructor that always tells us about one seminar that he went to. A high degree black belt from the NE of USA was invited to teach. He called out a black belt to be his uke so as to demonstrate a particular technique. Well, the uke was deliberately trying to stop the technique in a bid to show who was better. Instead of changing to another technique that would have worked against the pressure that was given, the visiting instructor just waved the guy off the mat and called up another black belt for the technique demonstration.

Nice. Look for a fight somewhere else; we're here to learn. :)

Nick Simpson 10-26-2006 05:43 PM

Re: man, it's tough!
 
Nice thread! james and Raul, spot on ;)


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