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-   -   Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10564)

Guilty Spark 06-25-2006 04:15 PM

Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
I've tried to find my own answer with the search function but I'm not comming across it. Hopefully I didn't miss it and have to eat egg.

Could someone tell me what the difference between Yoshinkan Aikido and Aikikai Aikido is?

Different belts, different views, different techniques etc.. or something else?
Where are they different and where are they the same?
(Hopefully it isn't a touchy subject)


Cheers

Grant

Don_Modesto 06-25-2006 05:22 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Grant Wagar wrote:
I've tried to find my own answer with the search function but I'm not comming across it. Hopefully I didn't miss it and have to eat egg.

Could someone tell me what the difference between Yoshinkan Aikido and Aikikai Aikido is?

Different belts, different views, different techniques etc.. or something else?
Where are they different and where are they the same?
(Hopefully it isn't a touchy subject)


Cheers

Grant

Yeah. I'm quick to direct folks to it, but I'll admit that the search functions on these boards are often sort of lackluster. Hope this helps:

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17385

xuzen 06-26-2006 12:35 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

grant wrote:
Could someone tell me what the difference between Yoshinkan Aikido and Aikikai Aikido is?

Grant,
I will only do this for you, since you are still a noob.

Differences

Boon.

batemanb 06-26-2006 02:14 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
The differences are everything..........and nothing. In my limited exposure to Yoshinkan the main difference is the training methodology and some of the technique names. Other than that, they pretty much do the same thing I did at my old Aikikai club.


rgds

Bryan

TigerJK 06-26-2006 03:28 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
The basic techniques have differences in angle and tension

Also, at the basic level, Yoshinkan is more squared when facing the opponent.

Training methodology and philosophy are also very different.

But as Shioda said, "Different path up, but same mountain-top."

philipsmith 06-26-2006 08:06 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Agree with Brian. The only difference is really of teaching method (Yoshinkan is more "Kata" like below Shodan), ultimately the techniques are the same.
Interestingly when I began Aikiaki nomenclature was very like that used by Tomiki Sensei (kotemawashi, kote hinari etc) and became more like Yoshinkan (Ikkajo, Sankajo) as time went on.

I know that if when I'm at "multi-style" Aikido seminars I often end up practising with the Yoshinkan guys even though I'm an Aikikai "softy"

Guilty Spark 06-26-2006 11:45 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Awesome guys thanks. (And thanks Xu Wenfung, let the pain commence)

I'm looking at attempting to teach myself while I'm away for half a year. I really don't want to miss out on that training time. I found some buddies in judo willing to let me practice with them which is great (where I'll be returning the favor).

I was planning on using some books I picked up, this site (work project anyone?) and even an aikido computer program. Problem (and reason for my question) is that some of the books and this program teaches aikikai aikido vice the yoshinkan I've been learning. I wasn't sure if mixing the styles would be disastrous or how well they would work together. Sounds like it's doable though.

I DO realize the risks involved regarding learning the wrong or poor techniques but I think I can make it work. I'm quite skilled at unlearning mistakes :)

Any advice comments or opinions would be appreciated of course.

Grant

wayneth 06-26-2006 11:57 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
I don't think that there is a real big difference between these two systems of Aikido. They both more or less do the same techniques, except which is probably the biggest stylistic difference is that they perform the techniques a little bit different i.e. Aikikai perform Nikyo Ura on the shoulder, while Yoshinkan perform it almost like holding a sword etc.
Also I find that they both emphasis the same basic principles i.e. Atemi, Tenkan etc. where the only difference is on this is that they teach them on a different level/way (i think?)
Wayne

odudog 06-26-2006 12:53 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
It is possible to study from the Aikikai books and program and convert the techniques to the Yoshinkan version. I do just the opposite. The main difference that I notice on my Yoshinkan DVDs are that Yoshinkan tends to move in and "X". A quick example: Tenchinage: I was taught to get off the line then walk straight as I throw uke backwards {if uke is not totally off balance then turn your hips away from uke}, however, I notice the Yoshinkan gets off the line then walks diagonally behind uke throwing him backwards. I've noticed a hip atemi being applied to uke from various techniques due to this "X" movement.

The nikkyo ura version that Aikikai does works great when uke is empty handed but you wouldn't want to do this if he had a knife in his hand, instead, you would have to switch to the Yoshinkan version.

NagaBaba 06-26-2006 05:01 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Grant Wagar wrote:
Awesome guys thanks. (And thanks Xu Wenfung, let the pain commence)

I'm looking at attempting to teach myself while I'm away for half a year. I really don't want to miss out on that training time. I found some buddies in judo willing to let me practice with them which is great (where I'll be returning the favor).

Grant

I think it will be VERY good experience (regardless of aikido style), having judo folks as uke.
Courage!!

Nikopol 09-26-2007 08:22 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Checked out the link to the other thread relating to AIki-elves and came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time if you are looking for a serious answer. I was thinking of eventually starting a blog about this as I have studied both...

But I had a list of little things.

In Yoshinkan, shout Osu!
In AIkikai, never shout Osu.

Yoshinkan: Shite and Uke
Aikikai: Nage and Uke

Yoshinkan: Uke kiais at grab. Shite Kiais at atemi, throw, and pin.
AIkikai, no kiai.

The reason Yoshinkan kiai .. supposed to be to force Kokyu. (breathing)
The reason Aikikai does not kiai ... too busy doing kokyu.

Yoshinkan... "your foot is three inches to the left!"
AIkikai... let your footwork follow your center.

Yoshinkan... "wrong!"
Aikikai... "that will also work.."

Yoshinkan: taking ukemi from Sensei: Itai!
Aikikai: taking ukemi from Sensei: Itai!

Yoshinkan: Hiyaku (flying) ukemi.
Aikikai: Rolling ukemi.

Yoshinkan: Ikkajo, Nikkajo, Sankajo, Yonkajo.
Aikikai: Ikkyo Nikkyo Sankyo Yonkyo Gokyo.

Yoshinkan: No Jo and bokken work at Tokyo Honbu dojo (no room)
Aikikai: No Jo and bokken work at Tokyo Honbu dojo (no room)

Both: Jo and Bokken work according to Sensei's discretion at other dojos.
Both: "work with Jo and Bokken are indespensible to learning Aikido".

Yoshinkan: applys shime with one knee up (knee closest to ukes head)
Aikikai: applies shime with both knees down.

Yoshinkan: always finishes Shihonage on one knee with a finishing Atemi.
Aikikai: will finish Shihonage from a standing position. (with center lowered)

Yoshinkan: call their art "Aikido" in explanations
Aikikai: call their art "Aikido" in explanations

Yoshinkan: Techniques have a 1, and a 2 form
Aikikai: Techniques have an Omote and an Ura form

Yoshinkan will start katatemochi (katatedoei) techniques in Ai hanmi
Aikikai will start katatedori (katatemochi) techniques in gyaku hanmi.

Anaylisis: the superficiality of the techniques causes a new crossover Aikidoka to think he knows nothing, and that the techniques are different.

After more exposure and insight one comes to see that the techniques are the same at heart.

When starting a technique in aihanmi, it is only a step away from gyakuhanmi. Vice-versa.

Training in Aikikai can actually make clear to you the essence of Yoshinkan and vice versa.

It is sort of like reading two texts on the same subject. You get different things, but you also get the same things.

Learn to focus on the essence, it is all Osensei underneath.

Never, never, never shout Osu in an Aikikai dojo.

grondahl 09-27-2007 04:25 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Vincent Nikopol wrote: (Post 190678)
Yoshinkan: Uke kiais at grab. Shite Kiais at atemi, throw, and pin.
AIkikai, no kiai.

The reason Yoshinkan kiai .. supposed to be to force Kokyu. (breathing)
The reason Aikikai does not kiai ... too busy doing kokyu.

Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido.Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Quote:

Yoshinkan... "your foot is three inches to the left!"
AIkikai... let your footwork follow your center.

Yoshinkan... "wrong!"
Aikikai... "that will also work.."
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan
Quote:

Yoshinkan: Hiyaku (flying) ukemi.
Aikikai: Rolling ukemi.
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Quote:

Yoshinkan will start katatemochi (katatedoei) techniques in Ai hanmi
Aikikai will start katatedori (katatemochi) techniques in gyaku hanmi.
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then you will do basic waza from both both ai hanmi (kosa dori) and gyaku hanmi katatedori

Nikopol 09-27-2007 11:21 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Peter Gröndahl wrote: (Post 190689)
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido.Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

I am speaking from experience in Yoshinkan and Aikikai dojos in Japan. There will be differences but those who know what I am trying to say will not keep repeating the same sentance about Iwama style. Sounds like you are 'apparantly' an expert in Iwama.

Apparantly congratulations. :)

aikispike 09-27-2007 11:34 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Vincent Nikopol wrote: (Post 190678)

But I had a list of little things.

.

great list.

OSU
Spike

Steven 09-27-2007 12:39 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Oh come on people. We all know the biggest difference between the Yoshinkai and Aikikai is Spike Kimeda is a whole lot better looking that Don J. Modesto, Szczepan Janczuk or anyone else in the Aikikai for that matter. Well, maybe with the exception of all the fine looking Aiki-Ladies out there.

:-)

:: puts on flame suit ::

Ron Tisdale 09-27-2007 01:04 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Oh common Steven, I look better than Spike! :O

Oh, wait a minute, I'm not Aikikai.... :D

;) B,
R

Walker 09-27-2007 06:02 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Yoshinkan... "wrong!"
Aikikai... "that will also work.."
Bwa ha ha ha! Now that's funny.

Also:
Yoshinkan: Gangsters
Aikikai: Politicians

:D

Keith R Lee 09-27-2007 10:40 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Vincent Nikopol wrote: (Post 190678)

Yoshinkan... "wrong!"
Aikikai... "that will also work.."

Ohhhhh.....funny cause it's true. I got a kick out of that!

Shannon Frye 09-27-2007 11:21 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
I asked this same question not too long ago -

Here's the link -

http://aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13174

Christopher Gee 09-28-2007 01:10 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
The differences?? Ulimately its the spelling...

YOSHINKAN/AIKIKAI

Regards,

Aikibu 09-28-2007 01:34 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Peter Gröndahl wrote: (Post 190689)
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido.Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then you will do basic waza from both both ai hanmi (kosa dori) and gyaku hanmi katatedori

Along with Iwama there are many flavors of "Aikikai" Aikido...Thanks Peter for pointing this out.

William Hazen

Nikopol 09-28-2007 01:35 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Christopher Gee wrote: (Post 190764)
The differences?? Ulimately its the spelling...

YOSHINKAN/AIKIKAI

Regards,

That is very observant...

KamiKaze_Evolution 09-28-2007 06:17 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Some of Aikikai dojos do spiritual excersice, such as funakogi, furitama, kodotama, chinkon, etc. But whole the Yoshinkan is 0% spiritual, it's very safety for monothiests and evenly i am a monothiest as well. And explainations of "ki" in Yoshinkan and Aikikai are different, "ki" explanation of Yoshinkan is quite simple and it mentioned in Total Aikido book by Gozo Shioda. (Ki is mastery of balance)

Christopher Gee 09-28-2007 05:21 PM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
Quote:

Vincent Nikopol wrote: (Post 190767)
That is very observant...

No need to be mean..... everyone knows KI IS BEST.... ROAR!

roadster 10-03-2007 08:52 AM

Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai
 
One wears cute little patches on their GI and the other doesn't?


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