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-   -   Ikkyo from the guard (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10443)

Kevin Leavitt 06-03-2006 02:36 PM

Ikkyo from the guard
 
Wasn't sure where to post this...but seems appopriate to do it in "off the mat" since I was doing this in a non-aikido context.

Anyway, this week when training in my guard work (BJJ). I was reading Grappling Magazine and there was an article from Kid Peligro about controlling the guard.

Here is how it works. When your opponent slips one hand under your leg and cross collars you to pass, your leg is up on his shoulder. Normally I try a triangle choke at this point and get passed, or try for a leg sweep by reaching under.

What I found was that Kid Peligo showed that you control at the elbow and as he goes to stack and pass you lift up and slip your leg back into the guard under the elbow.

I saw that and tried it. Well what do you know! Ikkyo is right there!

So I modified it and now when I get passed a put my hands in classic ikkyo position, shift hips back the other way and you have ikkyo!

If you can shrimp out a little while holding ikkyo and turn turtle a little, and keep control, uke will go right over your back and you can take him right on down into the mount or other type of arm bars depending on his response.

It is not a failsafe...but it did add more options to my game..AND...it looks just like classic ikkkyo which is rare in BJJ!


I wish I could produce a video to show you guys...it is really kinda cool!

Aristeia 06-03-2006 02:41 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
I wish you could as well Kevin, I'm having trouble visualising this.
Yesterday was Aikido extravaganza for my BJJ. Got a sankyo throw, kote gaeshi, and a rippo (sokumen irimi nage) if you can beleive that.

Kevin Leavitt 06-03-2006 02:58 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
That's pretty Cool! three in one day! wow.

It is hard to describe, but if you can picture your opponent securing the collar across the other side with one leg passed, up on his shoulder. Normally I try and do other things such as a triangle.

Anyway, next time you are doing it...look at where his arm is. If he is passing say with left arm, with your right leg up on his shoulder....support his passing arm that is securing your collar at the elbow...shrimp your hips out slighly to the right, while lifing a lilttle on his elbow, once your hips are out his base is gone. It feels funny and not instinctual as your leg is up there on his shoulder. the supporting the elbow creates space, you can then place your other hand on his arm and re-adjust into classic ikkyo. As he moves to control, you can "roll" the ikkyo and he will lose his base and of foward, you leg will come down off the shoulder as you move into a based out turtle. As he continues to gain balance back, you keep moving through into the ikkyo. If he bails and decides to turn and face you, you can hip out, circle around and go for the mount or an arm bar!

I really need to video tape this one! Maybe I will this week if I have time!

Aristeia 06-03-2006 03:05 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
hmm starting to make sense, I need to grab someone to try it on, maybe later today.
don't be too impressed with the aikido extravaganza - the wristlocks were against someone that didn't know any better. and the sokumen irmi was against a fellow ex aikidoka so I suspect when my arm went across his face he fell out of reflex :-)

Kevin Leavitt 06-03-2006 03:31 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
yea..that is when I usually get them...on new guys! The big discovery for me lately is that you irimi in the guard to off balance. That is you post your feet on the ground or on your opponent, and move sideways so his weight comes off you and he goes to the ground where your hips were.

The advantage I have on my guys from doing aikido is I have a much greater understanding of proper movement and using ki and kokyu to do things. I can roll forever and don't use strength much, but I still get submitted as much as any other bluebelt...I just do "more with less" than they do.

Aristeia 06-03-2006 03:34 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
*nods* I also found my base was instinctively better than a lot of newbies.

Kevin Leavitt 06-03-2006 04:02 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
yea aikido is real good for BJJ I am finding! it took me about a year of struggling to fit alot of it in, but now the whole kokyu thing, ikkyo and all that are coming back. Also the breathing.

I was working stand up with knife today, and man, aikido really helps out with the footwork and handling the tempo and distance.

Aristeia 06-03-2006 04:30 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
yep, they're great partners alright.Great to see increasing amounts of cross training in the community as well (I had a theory that an "aikido sabattical" to another art should be compulsory for nidan)

eyrie 06-03-2006 06:16 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
Guys, aikido provides a basic set of body skills (via basic technical applications) which can be applied to any martial art.... ;)

Aristeia 06-03-2006 08:27 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
some arts have more cross over in terms of strategy and tactics imo. BJJ and Aikido have very similar strategies (as opposed to say muay thai, some forms of karate etc)

Kevin Leavitt 06-04-2006 01:23 AM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
I know from my own experiences that there was a direct correalation to the crossover to BJJ with the basics of dynamic movment. However, given the pace and closer distance of BJJ, my responses and timing were not always correct. There were also some responses that I had yet to develop that we simply do not train in aikido.

I hesitate to say techniques. Once you start looking at techniques really everything becomes a variation of something we do in aikido. What is interesting is when you can recognize it!

For instance, I finally figured out that most sweeps from the bottom of the guard are basically the principle of irimi. uke is in your guard, and you must sweep him to either submission or to a side control or mount. If you look at the dynamics of what you must do...it is irimi! his energy is coming down on your hips to control you so he can pass, you shrimp you hips out (irimi) so his energy is now going in down into the mat into the "void".

So, what is different is not so much the principles, but the response, set up, timing, all that!

I would agree with Michael that in many respects striking arts are not so complimentary as they will deal more with striking force. That said, in Muay Thai, we still need to have proper footwork and responses that follow the same principles, but they are not so concerned with balance, blending, and redirecting energy to exploit. It is more of a "ground and pound" scenario.

Having studied karate for many years...it is there too, but the karate I studied as more about block and counter than anything else. I can now make slight adjustments to karate kata and it flows more like aiki.

But, I agree with Michael..on the scale..."striking arts" have less in common than say BJJ, Aikido, and Judo that operate off the same core with different methodologies that are complementary.

eyrie 06-04-2006 06:29 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
Hmmmm.... didn't someone say somewhere that Aikido was 70% striking...? Whilst, I agree that some arts may have more cross over with similars arts based on similar strategic and tactical principles, I also think that adaptation of specific body mechanics is less so "style specific" and more so universally applicable and adaptable.

mathewjgano 06-04-2006 08:34 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
Quote:

Hmmmm.... didn't someone say somewhere that Aikido was 70% striking...?
Atemi is often understood as more than simply striking, but rather the ability to strike which is felt by uke. If uke doesn't pay attention to the atemi, unless nage is damned good, he will get popped a good one.

alex padilla 06-04-2006 09:29 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
hi kevin,

never thought of that one before, ikkyo from the guard- while his stacking, you get the arm grabbing the collar?
so he is almost on your side mount, when you are doing ikkyo?
am i visualizing it correctly?

well, on my part the guys i get to roll with are aikidokas so basically we practice by them locking me in aiki locks and i try to control or pin them with bjj. yes bjj and aikido compliments each other.

thanks. and we'll be waiting for the video.

DonMagee 06-05-2006 12:06 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
It would be cool to get step by step photos of this and post them on lockflow or mmalibrary.com

Kevin Leavitt 06-05-2006 01:58 PM

Re: Ikkyo from the guard
 
I will have to see what I can do! It is all time!

Anyway, I don't suspect that it is anything revolutionary, Again, I stole it from Kid Peligo out of grappling magazine. It may not work very well against a really good BJJ guy. I only train with Blue belts and below...but in the last week since discovering this hidden gem...I have pulled it off over and over!


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