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-   -   are you combat effective! (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10329)

aldie 05-12-2006 02:49 AM

are you combat effective!
 
:grr: Are you combat effective!.. a point may come that you have to defend yourself.. can you be effective enough to survive an actual combat..

Mark Uttech 05-12-2006 04:42 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
I daresay that those of us who are not soldiers can hardly contemplate what 'combat' is. Those of us who have never been in any type of combat other than a street altercation cannot know what it is like to have bombs raining down and whistling all around. The study of Aikido helps to learn about vulnerability, and how to begin to let go of the mind that wants to fight. The study of ukemi is itself a study of vulnerability and dealing with vulnerability. O' Sensei taught about vulnerability, about keeping the force of Nature in mind. He also taught a peaceful way of practice. Yes, a point may come where you will have to defend yourself. You may have to defend yourself against some mind-numbing disease. Even here, the steadfast practice of Aikido has a place. Time and chance happen to us all. I personally have found that bowing, and focusing on breathing are just two of thousands of ways to face the unknown. In gassho

emma.mason15 05-12-2006 06:23 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
am i combat effective?
err ... no ...
but I have a degree in "look .... whats that over there?" ... and a NVQ in ruunning away ...

Steve Mullen 05-12-2006 06:56 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
one who turns and runs away........gets to keep on looking as good as i do :D

emma.mason15 05-12-2006 06:58 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
is tehre even a reply to that? ;)

Bridge 05-12-2006 07:10 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Steve Mullen wrote:
one who turns and runs away........gets to keep on looking as good as i do :D

Just how fast can you run?

And how good looking are you?

As for me...I'm well'ard! Not.

SeiserL 05-12-2006 07:57 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Aldie Vilan wrote:
:grr: Are you combat effective!.. a point may come that you have to defend yourself.. can you be effective enough to survive an actual combat..

I was and prabably still am, but hope I never have to find out again.

roosvelt 05-12-2006 08:28 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Aldie Vilan wrote:
:grr: Are you combat effective!.. a point may come that you have to defend yourself.. can you be effective enough to survive an actual combat..

After training in Aikido, it sure imporves my odds. The odds is better or worse had I trained in weight lifting, running, swimming, car racing, knitting, or bird watching?

Dajo251 05-12-2006 11:07 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
I know I can handle myself in a fight, I knew this before aikido...am I going to come out unscathed, probably not, is the other guy going to come out unscathed probably not, what does this mean....I dont know Im tired and lost my train of thought

Kevin Leavitt 05-12-2006 11:30 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
No one really knows how they will come out in a fight. You might perceive in your head how you'd wish things might turn out based on the conception of what you think you will incur in a "combat" fight (whatever that is). The truth is you don't know.

There are too many issues that come into play. The only thing you can do is to prepare yourself mentally, physically, and spiritually to be ready when the time comes.

Sometimes you are the bug, sometimes you are the windshield!

Hopefully you do all you can to minimize exposure and reduce risk. With a little bit of skill, and some luck thrown in...well you might survive....it just depends. No matter how good you are, everybody can be beaten and killed.

Jorge Garcia 05-12-2006 11:45 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
I am as effective as any martial artist is who has trained for 11 years, under the teachers I have had, with the intensity and focus I have exercised who meets someone he can defeat with the amount of training and talent they lack or possess.

Another way of putting this is. I can survive some combats and not others. It depends who is in front of me and what tools for fighting they possess. I cannot defeat a short man with a big bomb.That is the same for me, Mike Tyson, the Gracie's and the man walking down the street .
Deeper thought would have kept the question from ever being asked.

Richard Langridge 05-12-2006 01:42 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
The fact that this topic keeps coming up just shows how incredibly complex the issue of 'combat' really is. Since you can never prepare for every eventuality, there's no harm in working on improving your odds. That's how I see it anyway...

Jorge Garcia 05-12-2006 04:34 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
That's my point. That all we are ever working with are odds and yes, the more you train, with more focus and intensity under great teachers, the more improved your odds are but that doesn't tell you how you will do against anyone because you and I don't have that information about them. No one ever knows who is going to "beat" whom. Even what we think is often wrong. I was once In a Wendy's restaurant when a big guy in a truck pulled up and attacked a little guy who was kissing a girl in a car. The little guy was trapped against the car when the big guy came in with fists swinging and feet kicking. The little guy closed his eyes and threw one overhand shot and knocked out the big guy cold. He looked as shocked as anyone when it happened. I would have bet the house on the big guy but what should have happened didn't happen. No one ever knows.

giriasis 05-12-2006 04:43 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Mark Uttech wrote:
I daresay that those of us who are not soldiers can hardly contemplate what 'combat' is. Those of us who have never been in any type of combat other than a street altercation cannot know what it is like to have bombs raining down and whistling all around.

I'm with Mark, here. When one says "combat" I think of a war and what soldiers do. The rules of war are different from the rules of self-defense and the rules of fighting. These are three different situations. Having lost an uncle in war (he was Marine who died in Vietnam), I really cringe when people start talking about "combat" effectiveness, because what that sounds like to me is that you are only focused on killing people where I think most people are really concerned about self-defense (legally defending themselves against and unprovoked attack) and few are concern about fighting (where people pit their skills against one another).

Don_Modesto 05-12-2006 05:14 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Aldie Vilan wrote:
:grr:

:grr: ?!

Group therapy question of the day for the Anger Management Class?

Quote:

Are you combat effective!..
"!" and not "?" ?!

Quote:

a point may come that you have to defend yourself.. can you be effective enough to survive an actual combat..
Does this keep you awake nights?

Stress probably shortens more lives than violence. Can you be calm enough not to have an aneurism before you hit 17?

aldie 05-12-2006 07:41 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Are you combat effective!.. I can say the dojo I'm learning Aikido from is indeed equipping it's practitioners to be combat effective..

We learn the real value of Aikido by learning it's effectiveness against other forms of Martial Arts. We train to hand to hand combat, hand to armed combat, and armed to armed combat. Armed!.. meaning armed with a knife, a jo, a bokken, an arnis, a gun, a ballpen, and a lot more. We really don't use real knives or guns but what is important is that you are taught of defending yourself effectively against all this through Aikido.

But hey!.. don't be thinking that we view Aikido as an art simply to break bones, hurt people, or whatever. We do value most of all it's timely principles and that we do prefer talking yourself out of trouble rather than.. you know!..

Thank you for your time!..

NagaBaba 05-12-2006 09:37 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Aldie Vilan wrote:
We really don't use real knives or guns but what is important is that you are taught of defending yourself effectively against all this through Aikido.

Ah, I'm so disapointed!!! I hoped for the first time in my short life to see somebody, who like O sensei could do a tenkan against the bullets......I even bought a ticket to Dumaguete City for next week. And now you tell me that you are cheating, that all your story about combat effectiveness is a fake????? :grr: no real knives?????? :grr: not even real guns????? :grr: .............You will have a hard time, because I'm coming with the real knives, live blade katana and a kalashnikov. :grr:

hope to see you soon Aldie!

Don_Modesto 05-12-2006 09:40 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Aldie Vilan wrote:
Are you combat effective!..

erm...appropos of...?

kaishaku 05-12-2006 09:48 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
No, but I am hermetically sealed for your protection.

raul rodrigo 05-12-2006 10:01 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
There are quite a few dojos in my country where the boast is their aikido is "combat effective." And then when you visit their dojos you find out that the sensei has no affiliation with an international aikido organization and no shihan to follow, the techniques are crude and very choreographed, and the odds are the entire school is just making do with techniques learned from books and videos. If it works for them, fine. But what this has to do with aikido is beyond me.

aldie 05-12-2006 10:07 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Ah, I'm so disapointed!!! I hoped for the first time in my short life to see somebody, who like O sensei could do a tenkan against the bullets......I even bought a ticket to Dumaguete City for next week. And now you tell me that you are cheating, that all your story about combat effectiveness is a fake????? :grr: no real knives?????? :grr: not even real guns????? :grr: .............You will have a hard time, because I'm coming with the real knives, live blade katana and a kalashnikov. :grr:

hope to see you soon Aldie!

Wow!.. I don't think if your still training to be effective in Aikido that you would dare do tenkan or all sorts of techniques with real knives, or guns or whatever.. right?.. I have not heard of such a dojo..

But anyway the real purpose of it all using FAKE as you say is safety.. surely no one would want to be responsible for chopping off someone else's fingers or arms :) .. or cutting yourself..

Anyway the real purpose their is to expose us practitioners on applying aikido techniques when your practice partner attacks you with let say a FAKE knife, or whatever..

Kevin Leavitt 05-12-2006 10:21 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
I think many of us have a different idea and expectations of what empty hand Martial arts will really do for you Aldle.

May be philosophical or simply a different paradiqm.

aldie 05-12-2006 10:25 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Raul Rodrigo wrote:
There are quite a few dojos in my country where the boast is their aikido is "combat effective." And then when you visit their dojos you find out that the sensei has no affiliation with an international aikido organization and no shihan to follow, the techniques are crude and very choreographed, and the odds are the entire school is just making do with techniques learned from books and videos. If it works for them, fine. But what this has to do with aikido is beyond me.

Hi Raul,

Dude!.. it's now really on who or what a dojo is affiliated to.. that determines a sensei's skills and knowledge of Aikido. A sensei can attend to all the seminars and trainings there but still.. it all comes down to what really is a sensei's intention.. make business out of Aikido or pursue the true purpose of O'sensei for Aikido..

xuzen 05-12-2006 10:48 PM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Aldie Vilan wrote:
:grr: Are you combat effective!.. a point may come that you have to defend yourself.. can you be effective enough to survive an actual combat..

No I am not combat effective... because I do not know how to operate a AK-47, a Glock handgun or throw a hand grenade.

No I am not combat effective... because I do not know how to drive a tank or fly a F-18.

No I am not combat effective because I do not work for the military nor Law Enforcement.

So sorry.

batemanb 05-13-2006 01:41 AM

Re: are you combat effective!
 
Quote:

Aldie Vilan wrote:
:grr: Are you combat effective!.. a point may come that you have to defend yourself.. can you be effective enough to survive an actual combat..

Don't know, don't care. I don't practice Aikido to fight, I'm not interested in fighting or going up against other people or arts to test what I do. Does that make me weak or my Aikido ineffective? Does it mean that what I study is of no use? I guess if I ever find myself in a "situation", I'll find out.

Until then, I'm gonna carry on enjoying my practice, learning how to make people fall over, having fun and working on the Aikido principles of not fighting (which obviously require more practice as I posted in this thread ;) ).

rgds
Bryan


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