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Axiom 07-08-2000 09:19 PM

This has probably been discussed before, but I can't find any previous discussion. I've just begun(~2 months) aikido, and I'm wondering. How do real world Uke(or attackers, or whatever) fall? For example, while in class, sending someone into a forward throw results in a splendidly beautiful and graceful forward roll, leaving Uke pretty much unharmed and in a ready position. I've never really tried a technique on a non-Aikidoka that would send them into a front roll(My friends seem strangely unwilling to experiment :-) ), but what would happen to a real world uke not trained in falling? What about ushiro ukemi?

Just beginning,
Alex Magidow

dbgard 07-08-2000 09:28 PM

real life ukemi no ukemi
 
This is in response to the "real life ukemi" post.

I've never used aikijutsu in real life; aikido - many times - but never a physical technique in response to a real threat.

I would strongly urge you not to throw the attacker in real life, but rather to end the confrontation in osae-waza (pinning). Once the attacker has been controlled, add gradual pain until he shouts "ushiro" or "uncle" or something of that sort. If you truly believe this won't phaze him/her, consider the next step with resignation and mercy.

Take care,
Drew

AikiTom 07-08-2000 09:39 PM

(This is a serious answer)
He will fall or he won't. That is if the person goes down, he'll probably go down more unglamorously than a trained person will and is more likely to be injured, which may be desired/necessary depending on circumstances. And, if he doesn't go down, it may be because you didn't off-balance him in preparation for the technique.
That's why you should never feel bad about working with brand-new students in aikido. They are the best for checking if your technique is good, (because they've got little idea about how to respond beyond just going somewhere) or if your regular practice partners have just gotten used to your technique.
Good luck :)

BC 07-10-2000 09:09 AM

I've never had to use aikido in a confrontation outside the dojo, but one of my sempai recently told me about the one time he had. He had a friend that had been badgering him about doing aikido in a bar all night. Later, his friend surprised him in a feined attack, and my sempai responded automatically by applying a sankyo throw (mai ukemi), and his friend very non-gracefully fell into some tables, unharmed. He said he didn't even realized what happened until it was over. My point is that once you have developed your aikido skills to the point that you respond instantaneously to an attack, there is some likelihood that your attacker will make the determination of what technique you use, be it either a throw or a pin. If you try to think about what technique to use in a real attack, you could jeopardize yourself, your loved ones, or even your attacker. A possibly unfortunate result of this instant response is that your attacker might get hurt because he doesn't know to fall, but this is, afterall, a martial art.

IMHO.

Guest5678 07-11-2000 01:38 PM

Quote:

Axiom wrote:
This has probably been discussed before, but I can't find any previous discussion. I've just begun(~2 months) aikido, and I'm wondering. How do real world Uke(or attackers, or whatever) fall? For example, while in class, sending someone into a forward throw results in a splendidly beautiful and graceful forward roll, leaving Uke pretty much unharmed and in a ready position. I've never really tried a technique on a non-Aikidoka that would send them into a front roll(My friends seem strangely unwilling to experiment :-) ), but what would happen to a real world uke not trained in falling? What about ushiro ukemi?

Just beginning,
Alex Magidow

Well, we have a guy here in our dojo that did have to use Aikido on an idiot a few months ago. The result was that the attacker ended up with a dislocated shoulder and a really bad headache. Our friend (the good guy) spent some time in jail waiting for the police to get the whole story straight even though it happened in front of a convenience store full of witnesses.

I personally can tell you that the attacker does not go down with a nice perfect roll or break fall and you will more than likely seriously injure the attacker ( and this is a bad thing? ) well, consider that you can possibly wind up with a law suite against you. Now let's go one step further. You are now in court explaining your side when the attacker's lawyer (or public defender) asks, Mr. Victim, do you currently study any martial arts? and your answer will be...........

From this point on there is little use in explaining much of anything. As soon as a judge (or jury) hears that question answered you're running uphill from there, if you know what I mean.

WITH CAUTION, when you think you have a technique down, work with the new people in your dojo. Don't throw them down, but take them to the edge and note how their body reacts. It's very interesting to see how much different their body moves compaired to someone that has been training for awhile.

Good luck and be safe!
Mongo


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