![]() |
I have seen a counter done with kote gaeshi where you take the high fall, something happens, and your partner subsequently takes a fall. I'm a little unclear on the something happens part. Could someone enlighten me on this?
Thanks! |
In our school we do a diagonal roll over ukes arms and kick him in the head as we go over, this may be what your talking about but you did not give a lot of info.
|
Quote:
|
kashiwaza is what its called. Im sorry I justed wanted to say that if someone didnt know, ''ya learn something every day''. Hmmm from koetgashi. If a tecnique is put on properly than kashiwaza cannot be applied. The only one I can think of from kotegashi is before tory gets it on you raise your arm to your centre , slip your hips under him and do some a hip throw.
|
Quote:
You can counter koetgaeshi with another kotegaeshi if you're brought in too tight to tore, applying on the hand he uses to support. If both of you are terrible bad at applying technique but terrible good at reversing it you could do this reversal over and back for ever and ever without anybody ever winning. Ooops, I've said too much again... andrew |
Quote:
For the record, I believe kashi refers to legs. Quote:
I also agree on the sentiment of not being able to counter someone who does perfect technique and flying through the air isn't my first choice of counter. But dammit, it's got serious style points and I want to know how to do it. |
[quote]Erik wrote:
Quote:
I think, if you keep training, you'll simply have a notion one day and be able to do it.. andrew |
Quote:
As far as that particular kotegaeshi counter goes of uke launching nage while uke is still in the air, I think it's more for show. We've practiced the counter for kotegaeshi wherein you take the backfall or breakfall while continuing to extend nage's motion of the kotegaeshi to break their balance to throw them. The same can be done for shihonage and (although I haven't tried this one out yet) kaitennage. I don't know if it's a technique I'm going to be trying "on the street," but I think it helps illustrate the fact that falling and rolling doesn't necessarily mean that uke is no longer a threat and that breaking nage's balance can happen in the most interesting places... -- Jun |
Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
I actually did a search on kashi, just in case Matt was referring to something obscure, and I hit legs several times, including http://www.aikidofaq.com/dictionary/bodyparts.html and these guys say the same thing and more actually. http://www.trussel.com/f_nih.htm They also include the following translations: noncommissioned officer the legs; lower extremities being granted; granting; imperial grant asphyxiation; apparent death false tooth (a-no) visibility song lyrics; words of a song fish market; riverside; river bank Fahrenheit pastry evergreen oak loan; lending Quote:
[Edited by Erik on February 15, 2001 at 12:26pm] |
VERY tricky ukemi......
Erik,
When nage does (poor) kote gaeshi (only way this really works), grab nage's wrist with your free hand just prior to entering your break fall escape, keep contact between his palm and your hand (the one that they did kote on). As you go over, rotate the hand nage did kote on to a forward direction and wrap around nage's hand. The turning motion of the breakfall will also turn nage's wrist over. Your hand will now be on the back of nage's and you still have his wrist with your other hand. Nage then has to break fall over you to escape. You have to land in the right position to start with and it's very hard to explain this in text. Also, beware that the force of the first break fall can cause extreme damage to nage's wrist if they are not expecting this move. Basically, you have to breakfall without any asistance from your arms or hands. Sounds much easier than it is. While this looks really cool, I would not recommend it as there is a very high potential for injury to both people. I hope this helps....... Please train safe, Dan P. - Mongo |
I've also seen this kind of counter, but with back rolls instead of breakfalls. Uke rolls because nage doesn't keep uke's elbow vertical, then comes up out of the roll and counters with their own kotegaeshi. Just a couple of weeks ago, one of my sempai did this to me when he busted me doing a sloppy kotegaeshi. :eek: One of the more surprising reversals I've encountered... :)
|
Re: VERY tricky ukemi......
Quote:
[Edited by Erik on February 15, 2001 at 11:16pm] |
I know two others on kote geishi...
1. Just when uke(nage?) start with the throw you, nage(uke?), step out and back of uke and at the same time close your fist and turn it in the opposite direction, and you will end up in a ikkyu :cool: 2. Just in the right moment you overtake uke's(nage's) throwing motion and step in front and then in to do iriminage. It feels great when you get this one in. ! If you train keishi waza then, try to do different kind without telling your partner, that you will have your moment of surprise!:p |
Quote:
Yeah, I've seen it with back rolls but haven't tried it. Appears harder to hold onto nage. Of course the issue with the other way is nage has to enter his escape prior to uke landing, so timing is very critical. Either way, I'd still rather just kick 'em in the back of the head on the way over, and roll back up. he-he-he! What fun we have, huh?! Train hard, Play hard, live easy. Dan P. - Mongo |
Quote:
andrew (sorry!) |
Teehee :)
I was waiting for someone to say that. Quote:
|
What if you're already an ikkyu, and you end up in a gokyu? :)
|
Nice one! 'hope you all understand what I mean anyway ;)
|
Counter
Quote:
The one you are most likely referring to involves this: The nage has a grabbing hand (grabbing the wrist) and a matching hand (placed on the back of the hand); uke takes his free hand and grabs the wrist of nage's matching hand, he attempts to fall inside the arc of projection of the kotegaeshi, as he lands he twists away from nage, applies his own matching hand and throws the nage over his body by over extending him (note that uke's body should be right up against the legs of nage to prevent any balancing step being made> |
Re: Counter
Quote:
andrew |
[quote]Erik wrote:
[b]I have seen a counter done with kote gaeshi where you take the high fall, something happens, and your partner subsequently takes a fall. I'm a little unclear on the something happens part. Could someone enlighten me on this? I think I know what you refer to. That counter(kaeshi waza as someone has correctly said) could be one kick to the head of the KG performer(uke/tori?) or extending his arm in order to pull him of balance. Bein the former the most benevolent. The first, indeed, can cause serious damage to tori(/uke?). I have once saw two friends practicing randori and one of them, who was performing gotegaeshi, was knoked down by a the kick counter. It is very dangerous for both uke and tori to perform such a technique, there are other counters to kote gaeshi. Also, kothe gaeshi when performed in a downward manner has but litlle chances to escape. take care of your selves and donīt do circus-like things because they look or feel fancy. bye Javier |
I've had a slight change of view over kotegaeshi over the past few months. It is often done with the hip going in very quickly and a large circular throw. This enables the counter (as described) with the kick to the head - also, if the kotegaeshi is too slow it results in uke either hitting nage with his other hand or just charging in to nage.
An alternative is to withdraw ukes arm to the side (as you would normally, turning him around). But well before his centre is lined up with his own wrist you put kote-gaeshi on. This doesn't look as pretty and usually results in a backward ukemi rather than forward ukemi for uke. However it prevents being kicked, or hit. It also prevents uke getting control of your wrist for the counter, as his centre never comes in line with his arm (and therefore he is weak). In terms of real application, you cannot get a throw out of this and you would have to either cause them to sit down with the pain (unlikely I think) or break the wrist. Ian |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:43 PM. |
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.