Ki and Remaining Grounded
I'm two months into Aikido and had a question regarding Ki.
From all the techniques I've seen so far, nage always has their feet firmly planted on the ground. For Ki energy to be used, must nage be grounded? For example, if you were standing relaxed with your arms at your side and a taller person came up from behind and grabbed you around the waist then lifted you off the ground, could Ki energy be used in any way to assist you in getting out of that situation? Thanks in advance for all your responses. Paul |
Re: Ki and Remaining Grounded
Hmmm....this is not the answer to the question you are posing but a reply to your assumption:
I think a lot of us would disagree w/ being rooted/planted as a good thing or as synonomous w/ things like one point or weight underside. 2 reasons off the top of my head: 1. One wants the ability to move lightly, quickly and dynamically. 2. One is way more injury-prone when rooted (joints lock and then give out with disastrous results) |
Re: Ki and Remaining Grounded
Whats Ki?
He he |
Re: Ki and Remaining Grounded
When ki is extending, you should have a light, floating feeling and should be un-liftable even with two big guys.
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If yes, then you will realize Ki are for Wussies.... Yoshinkan' ers believe in Body Mechanics, Angles, you know.... the boring Physical stuff. But then I could use my KEYS to poke at uke's sensitive parts to make my escape... who knows. Not part of grading syllabus though. Boon . |
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EXTENDING FLOATING UN liftable..... Incredible. Sorry I used to practice Ki myself. I think there are an awesome set of principles their, but I could never make the applications work with other Aiki brands... probably just me. Yoroshiku onegai shimasu. |
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first of all you should be aware enough that you won't get snuck up on. especially if you are small enough to get picked up, like I am. moving first is of great importance. In general you should keep your hips dropped, knees bent. it gives you a more solid position. 13 years and I still can't get this one.
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Re: Ki and Remaining Grounded
The short answer is yes. There are many people who, like myself, believe that "ki" is really just about certain bio-mechanical functions, and has nothing to do with mystical energy you channel from the ground or air. The deal with the ground is really about being able to push off of it.
If you get lifted up, as others have said, there are ways to make yourself "heavy" and hard to manipulate. You can also "throw" your weight around to off-balance the attacker. Daito-ryu has a famous "throw" where nage is lifted up by 4-6 people, and then becomes really heavy and knocks them all down. You can see it at about 3:15 in this video. Lastly, in such a situation, you could also use "ki strength" to help break the grip. (But don't ask me how, I'm not that far along in my own training.) |
Re: Ki and Remaining Grounded
IMHO, remaining grounded does not necessarily mean that you have to literally physically be touching the ground, but rather your mental map receives and extends ki/energy from it and returns to it.
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Knowing what Ki is and using it in Aikido properly is similar to me. You can do something in a relaxed manner, moving your bdy properly etc.... but without Ki, the -experience- of it will never be the same. The feeling will ultimately be different. That's my experience anyway. |
Re: Ki and Remaining Grounded
Larry, you're arguing with the guy! I apologize, I should have been more thoughtful with my words. I realize my last post probably sounded dismissive, but that really wasn't my intent. Anyway, let's not muddy up this thread with that discussion.
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It's not about the dog in the fight. It's about the fight in the dog. Therefore this is really about Mind or using the traditional terminology, about Ki development. The Yoshinkan I've seen is about timing, balance, ki extension and doing movements in a correct manner. Maybe that's just my perspective. :o |
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;) |
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Now to give you a hyperbolic answer: Should such scenario ever occur to me, you will bet I would have considered: a) egressing from the confrontation, failing which... b) I will ask for help, assuming none are available, then... c) use tools to equalize the confrontation, if I so happen to be in a barren desert with no appropriate tools... then d) I will give a fight for my opponent to remember me by... [quote] Quote:
Ossu! Boon. |
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Budo was created by homicidal, paranoid samurai. They understood that the thread of life was fragile. It could be cut down in the middle of a heart beat. Therefore they trained to be aware 24x7. Much of this training was of the mind as well as body. One could even say that they used the body to get to the mind. Of course I hope a confrontation like this does not happen to you. I hope it doesn't happen to any of us. However I think the training of being aware all the time is a valuable legacy. It is a goal that we can all try to achieve in our practice. Quote:
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how can an 'awesome set of principles' be so ineffective? No ki no aikido.;) regards Mark |
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No need to be 'sorry' Mark, I train in a way much more suited to myself and I never mention such an 'undeterminable' word. Musashi never 'extended his mind'... thats good enough for me. Yoroshiku onegai shimasu |
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I'm always wary of applying "real uses in situation x y z" to ki principles, mainly because my own view of using ki within my practice is more akin to correct visualisation and mental posture rather than some nebulous energy I've managed to tap into. However, within the confines of my own take on ki, no I don't have to be in touch with the ground to "extend ki", but I do have to be centered within myself so if the large attacker who's just used me like a rag doll has taken that away from me - no I couldn't use ki (or probably anything other than spastic flailing). Personally, I find the ideas promoted by training as though Ki exists more helpful than trying to calculate the correct vectors on the fly or some other more mechanical approach, but whatever works for you is good. |
Re: Ki and Remaining Grounded
From my understanding, ki is not something that can be "used". Ki is always flowing, but when we do things such as having bad posture, not eating right, not sleeping right, not breathing right,etc., we block or diminish the flow. Ki exercises help to increase the "Ki power". So, with proper practice, it should always be there, not some power that you try to summon forth to enhance your technique or give you power.
In those demonstrations where people are picked up, and then force the attackers to drop them, I believe at first that are demonstrating a stiff and unnatural posture making it easy to be picked up. After that, they once again assume a natural posture and then it becomes difficult to hold them up. However, I believe terms such as "unbendable" and "unliftable" are not meant to be taken literally. Ki is part of nature, and so is bound by the laws of physics. As for being constantly aware, well, in my opinion, if we were, we wouldn't have a need for ushiro techniques. To me, ushiro techniques reflect the unexpected, unpredictable, unpreventable, and unforeseeable parts of life. So, I accept the possibility that someone can sneak up behind me and that once I'm in that situation I'll just have to deal with it. That was the long answer, so here is the short one; Does one have to be grounded to use Ki energy? No. If you didn't have any Ki whenever you left the ground, you'd be dead. Can you use your Ki energy to get out of a situation? You'd have better chances using the force. |
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Well, if you have the solidity of the ground in your hands, while letting another's force pass through you back into the ground, that could be considered an application of "ki" and "grounding". And it could also be considered a conditioned response. But I don't want to send this off into a "Non-Aikido" topic . . . . ;) . . . . and not implying that I can do any of this . . . (why am I here?)
*throws smoke bomb and vanishes* |
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glad you have found a way of practicing that suits you, no slight intended, but you did leave yourself open when you questioned your own ability ;) regards, Mark |
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I always question my own ability, seek answers from ANY instructor willing to give them, test my technique, fittness and spiritual or mental clarity with anyone with anyone 'superior' to myself.
Chuck out the old milk, refill the bottle and all that. |
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