Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

When considering how to improve any Martial System it is necessary to take inventory, and examine if what is being taught is logically consistent and beneficial to the system as a whole.

Take for example the teaching of "Ki."

Lots of Aikido people run around talking about "ki", but the fact of the matter is that the teaching of "ki" is simply a mystical/magical teaching which conjures belief in superstitious nonsense. :p

Students attempt to clear their minds, chant words or syllables, breath a certain way, assume postures, and so forth in the attempt to grasp or develop a magical power that is about as real as George Lucas' "Force." :cool:

Students and Teachers would do better spending their time in the examination of, and actual practice of technical skills, rather than pretending to direct a make believe power from their bowels to their fingers.

Another example of the useless mysticism inherent in Aikido was the recent video that appeared on one of the forum threads. The clip did a nice job demonstrating technical skills that actually make up the system of Aikido. However, from time to time one would see something like: "Aikido is love." flash on to the screen. :crazy:

Aikido is love?
Please.

Why not say, "Baseball is love." , "Golf is love.", "Nascar is love", or whatever else someone decides love is to them.
The word 'love' quickly loses any meaning.
If a word can mean anything, then it simply means nothing.

Aikido is not love. :yuck:
Aikido is a Martial system.
Aikido class may be a place in which you can practice loving your neighbor, but Aikido is not love.

Just because a teacher, or a founder of Aikido was a nice guy, this is no basis for concluding that what he taught was the source of this kindness.

Just because a teacher, or a founder of Aikido claims that what he teaches will bring a moral harmony and love for mankind, this is no basis for concluding that what he taught actually accomplishes his claims.

If a person was not familiar with Aikido, and its mystical teachings, do you really think that such a person would conclude that Aikido was the way of peaceful harmony just by watching a demonstration of Aikido projections or neutralizations? Of course not.
They may be impressed, but no such moral assertion will be made from watching such a demonstration.

The reason it would be impossible to deduce a moral principal from a visual or tangible demonstration is because you cannot start with something you see (Aikido demo), and end up with something you cannot see (moral ideas).

One can practice ethics in Aikido class, but one cannot deduce ethics from Aikido.

If ethics are taught at Aikido class, then they did not come from Iriminage or kotegaeshi, but from Asian philosophy or religion. Since that is clearly the case, why should I pay homage to such Asian religious philosophy? Why not some other religion? Why not deontology? Why not utilitarianism?

If I want to go to church, why would I go to Aikido class?

If I want to learn how not to fight, couldn't I just ask an Amish person? Wouldn't that be easier than all that physical combat training? Aikido is combat training isn't it? The Amish manage not to fight without Aikido. The Amish manage to live in harmony without Aikido. Maybe Morihei Uyeshiba should have joined an Amish community instead of the religious school of Omoto-kyo.


If you don't need Aikido to live in harmony and peace with your neighbor, and clearly you don't, then maybe Aikido doesn't need Asian philosophy of religion in order to function. Maybe Aikido is simply a physical exercise that can be used in a self-defense situation.

RED BEETLE
www.kingsportjudo.com

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

You aren't talking about the mysticism itself but the mistaken/misinterpreted or incomplete views of Aikido that many of it's practitioners have. So your rant is like laughing at one of the blind men groping an elephant. They each think the part they have their hand on(or perhaps in) is the elephant but no matter how vehemently they argue their point they are wrong. Some of them aren't even touching the elephant ffs.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I'm afraid I have to agree.

You obviously have not trained indepth with Aikido so you are coming across as arrogant and insulting, which I am sure you do not intend to be Red.

The first lesson of Aikido, imo, is connection. There is no point discussing until you have this to give us a place to start communicating with each other.

btw I don't consider myself to be a nice guy...just nicer than before :)

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

No I think red made some very valid points.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I actually disagree with alot of what he said. I certainly understand from his perspective that this may not be what aikido is to him, but it certainly is to many and I don't consider it to be a waste of time spending time on the "internal" aspects.

Why do you want to focus soley on the technical aspects of the art? What is it that you want to gain. "Combat effectiveness"? Your living in a world of romantic bullshido if you think that any martial art is going to give you skills that will make you combat effective in and of itself. Sure, you can get some good things like kotegaeshi, nikkyo etc...but failure to understand the underpinnings of principle will leave you lacking.

Building character, perception, and the ability to read a situation and people around you is much more important aspect of studying martial arts than any limited technical skills you may learn. The art of awareness, posture, breathing, the ability to keep calm under pressure are much more important to my overall combat effectiveness. I've used all those things in "combat" , rarely have I ever used any of my technical skills.

sure, there are those that I do not consider warriors or "martial artist" that study aikido, but that does not mean that aikido is not meant for them. They get something out of it. I get much of the same that they do.

Aikido can be an allegory for peace and can be a physical manifestation of resolving conflict. I think that is a wonderful thing. What is wrong with that? I don't consider it a waste of time.

If you want simply the "external" things that make you "combat effective". Get yourself a stick, some pepper spray, a gun, and take some classes and learn how to use them the right way. I guarantee you will be miles ahead of anyone who studies TMA or any empty hand art at all.

Please spare me all the "what if" scenarios dealing with why you need to study empty hand while you are alone in a sterile environment. I consider that to be a waste of time for 99.9% of the time.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Either that or a problem of translation (and thus, lazy student: study more.)

People who took UKEMI from Osensei have a different opinion, of course.

Assuming there's a contradiction here... Shaun Ravens has some interesting things to say about the "mysticism" of these practices...

From the founder himself. But in Japanese it's a pun. "AI", written with different Ch. characters means both "harmony" and "love".

Yes. A complaint of my own, actually. But read into mysticism a little bit and you find that this is a feature, not a bug.

Not sure he was.

Valid point. See essays of Ellis Amdur for a nicely fleshed out argument on this.

Yup. People see what they want to see and often what they're told to see.

Crick saw snakes and imagined DNA; Einstein saw himself on a light beam and saw Relativity.

UPAYA/HOBEN/Skilful Means

Read Saotome--Aikido and the Harmony of Nature.

Precisely, no.

Sounds like jujutsu. Aikido has a specific history and purpose. You don't know it, so aikido plays nail to your only tool, the hammer.

Fun post, though. Reminds me of myself. Thanks.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

O'Sensei would agree:

"The Art of Peace begins with you. Work on yourself and your appointed task in the Art of Peace. Everyone has a spirit that can be refined, a body that can be trained in some manner, a suitable path to follow. You are here for no other purpose than to realize your inner divinity and manifest your innate enlightenment. Foster peace in your own life and then apply the Art to all that you encounter"

愛 or 合? Maybe they were mistaken.

I believe O'Sensei was not particularly wrapped up in the western concept of good and evil but I could be wrong. I think he was more interested in what was appropriate.

You can't know it until you are in it. Even then it is difficult. An outsider drawing conclusions about what it is and what it isn't is probably doing himself a disservice.

Aikido techniques are supposed to be very solution oriented with just the right thing with nothing more and nothing less. From this you could find that this principle is useful in other areas.

Amish people don't fight back as far as I know. This would leave them very vulnerable. They may appear non-violent but the self-violence they potentially open themselves to seems to make them rather violent in a way. This is against Aiki principles and therefore being Amish has nothing to do with Aikido.

Anyway, I hope I haven't stuck my head in the elephant too deeply.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

The Problem with mysticism, is that it's mysterious. If you lose the mystery (not knowing what's going on) then it's no longer mysterious, however if you don't lose the mystery, then you can never learn what you are doing. Mystery is for the ignorant. If you know what "ki" is (or rather what others refer to as being "ki"), it's not mystical anymore. Most people in Aikido are trying to become masters of something that they want to stay in the dark about.

It's very hard to pin Aikidoka (I'm generalizing here) down when it comes to asking them what they want. I think the main reason for this is because they want to keep everything a mystery. They don't want to come to the conclusion that Aikido's syllabus isn't good for everything. They don't want to conclude that Aiki is basically rhythm, and reading of intention. They don't want to discover that "ki" is just alignment and energy exchange that any high school physicist could explain to you. If they came to a conclusion on any of these things they would loose their mystical system. Unfortunately by doing this they limit themselves to mediocrity. By never admitting to yourself that a something is normal, dependable, and useful, you can never master it.

This isn't a sickness limited only to Aikidoka, it's an infection you see in the whole traditional martial arts community. They would rather not understand the reason for something, so they can live in the hope that it will never be just "normal". People want fantasy, and mystery. Thetas all fine and well Intel you attempt to learn, master, and teach something. I've often said that most traditional martial artists should join a reenactment group, or theater company and not a dojo.

The only problem with this non-mystical thinking is that it tends to close down openness to new things. Which is what I'm always looking for. If there is some new way to do something (even if I have to dance around in a funny dress, and yell vowels to find it) I want to learn it, this however doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to what I already know, and be afraid to admit what I have learned.

-Chris Hein

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I don't think there is anything mystical about training to become stronger and then less likely to become a victim.

Ki is not magic....... it is just co-ordination of mind and body.

Looking at conflict as a way to create peace is a good idea.

Mary

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I would have to disagree with the statement that Ki is not a real thing. In every culture, there is a way to define this natural occurrance. Westerners tend to define in it a secular way, whereas I think Easterners tend to explain it in a spiritual way....either way, it makes sense.

Now, if we merge the study of Ki/Chi with realistic training methods and techniques, I think an art becomes very effective. The only flaw I see with Aikido is the way some people practice it. The techniques have their validity, as does Ki. Applying them effectively comes down to how much we want to train and how we train. Don't confuse your personal failures and the effectiveness of an entire system.

That being said, I think there are a few things most dojos could do occassionally to solidify the effectiveness of their technique.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Red Beetle,

According to your website, you don't practice aikido.
Neither do I.
Although I share your opinions on the role of ki and mysticism in the martial arts, I find it rude that you wish to impose this view on others. Mysticism is an integral part of Aikido. Those who practice Aikido gravitate to it for this reason, and those like you and me choose other arts with less emphasis on mysticism. If Aikidoka want to feel that they are in harmony with the universe and act with love and compassion as they inflict horrible pain (be it temporary or not) on an attacker, that is their business. I'm sure they have equally disdainful opinions about my willingness to strike an attacker full force in the face. I do not wish them to impose their philosophy on my art, as I do not impose mine upon theirs.

Keith

edited to correct spelling

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

"better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Someone, I think on Aikiweb, had (or has?) a signature which came down to this:
True pacifism is having the ability to kill someone and then choosing not to.

I think that definition of pacifism is more in line with aikido than the Amish way of turning the other cheek. (As has been stated by Matthew Zsebik in post #7, btw.)

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

How is he imposing his views on others? He is just stating his views just like everyone else here.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Well.....
Most Aikidoka don't know if they are capable of defending themselves or not. Atleast the Amish arnt' pretending.

-Chris Hein

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Touché! :D

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

That's an interesting statement, one with which I'm not too sure if I personally agree.

But, to make sure we're on the same starting page:

How would you define "mysticism" in the context of your thoughts in this thread?
Interestingly, perhaps, at dinner last night, a friend of mine from the dojo said something to the effect of, 'I guess I have no qualms about hitting people." We then exchanged some stories of people hitting aikido shihan in the face (purposefully as opposed to accidentally) when training with them...

-- Jun

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Agree totally.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Keith Kolb wrote:
"Mysticism is an integral part of Aikido."

There's always that infinite regress, "What is aikido?"

But I think mysticism was the air the founder breathed and so an integral part of aikido. Interested in your take, Jun.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

And true BS is to say things like this when someone's younger sister can beat your butt. :) Unfortunately, the Amish have been in the news this last week, via a book by a born and raised insider talking about physical and sexual abuse within the Amish community being much greater than perceived.

Mike

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I think we're starting to get off track when we talk about the sexual tendencies of the Amish........

I would agree that mysticism is an integral part of Aikido, I had never really thought of it that way, it's an interesting thought.

-Chris Hein

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Yes, that's a very good point.
My thought is that mysticism is one manifestation of the spiritual aspects of aikido. I like the definition of "mysticism" that I just found on dictionary.com: A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.

I'm sure there are many people out there who will say that they are not interested in anything but the physical "put your partner's butt onto the ground" part of aikido. For them, I wouldn't necessarily say that any sort of mysticism. That is why I said that I do not necessary agree that mysticism is an integral part of aikido.

-- Jun, off to the dojo to have my butt put onto the ground

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

"Imposing" may have been too harsh a word, but in effect Mr. Red Beetle is saying that the idea of ki, and the philosophy behind aikido, is rubbish. It is one thing to comment of the effectiveness of technique, but philosophy is neither right nor wrong. For him to say that a certain philosophical approach to martial arts is wrong, is...well wrong. I feel that it would be analogous to going to a dedicated Christian forum and starting a thread that says there is no way that a person could rise from the grave and come back to forgive all your sins and you are are fools for believing it. It just seems out of place in a bad way.

I don't believe in the concept of "ki." The idea that there is some form of energy inside us and all around us that we can project from our bellies to our fingertips is a bit mystical to me. I may be wrong, but I think the idea of "ki" is integral to Aikido. "Ki" being a mystical concept, mysticism is integral to Aikido. IMHO of course.

As for striking with the intent to do damage: I will concede that there are aikidoka who have no problem with my willingness to beat the crap out of my attacker if you concede that that are many who would have a problem with it.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

My two cents is that there is some "mysticism" via Ueshiba in Aikido because of Shinto (animism), but there's a misconception about the "heavenly views" in Asia among many westerners, particularly the New Age. The strong undercurrent that Ueshiba was drawing on was the Asian (read "Chinese", since they were the dominant power whom so many emulated) idea of there being a rationality to all things in the universe. In other words, there is an order, starting with the Yin-Yang explanation and developing in a logical progression. What many are interpreting as "spirituality", "mysticism", and "religious call to love" is actually more of an assurance that from the chaos there is an order of rationality. The Asian "religions" are justifying themselves on ORDER (read "HARMONY"), so "mysticism", in the western sense, is probably not quite accurate.

My opinion.

Mike

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

WE aren't talking about it... it was in a book that just made the bookstores. The point is that you can't point out the Amish as being exemplars of "peace and love" without taking into account the whole picture. It's just like I pointed out to Craig Hocker... you can't writhe and moan about Tohei and Ki while trivializing his habit of drinking. A saint is a saint... a man is a man. ;)

Mike

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I think Aikido fights fire w/fire, which isnt necessarily a bad thing. You cant effectively stop fighting w/out knowing how to fight. I think this is the main idea of aikido. Although it is somewhat violent to learn aikido, it really IS love because it teaches you to use your skills to stop violence, and that shows love for other people. Red beetle , you speak of what you dont know . So learn something about Aikido and then come back here and whine. At least then you can back yourself up

-Paige

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

[QU A saint is a saint... a man is a man. ;)

A saint is a person, too. (perhaps with just a good publicist). :)
Mary

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Keith kolb. You just like "red beetle" do not take aikido, therefore you also dont know what you are talking about. People who dont take aikido have no business coming on an AIKIDO website and posting nonsense.
paige

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

The original poster is not imposing his views on any of his; this is a forum for everyone (and anyone) to post anything they wish; we can choose to ignore, agree or disagree. And hope Jun is watching closely enough when things get out of hand.

"Aikido is not love.
Aikido is a Martial system.
Aikido class may be a place in which you can practice loving your neighbor, but Aikido is not love."

No?

Aikido is nothing but an expression of the spirit of Love for all living things. &
The secret of aikido is to cultivate a spirit of loving protection for all things.

from http://www.aikiweb.com/general/founder.html

How does this relate to a sankyo that makes your eyes water, or an irimi-nage that feels like, well, nothing at all? I have no idea, but I am drawn to these ideals and embrace them as a fundamental under-pinning of Aikido. If I wanted a martial system (aka The 100% effective ass-whoopin' system), then I would look elsewhere....

Maybe you should, as well.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Having not seen the original Japanese quote "Aikido is 'love'", I can't really comment otherwise. But here's a thought:

Perhaps "love" (or at least what most people think of "love" in English) is not the right word???
The Chinese character for "love" is a composite pictogram depicting "friends" living under a "roof" with children, implying a harmonious relationship, based on friendship.

Just some food for thought....

Ignatius

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

So this guy walks into a bar and says:

"This place is full of drinkers and drunks...."

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Quite a little hornets nest has been stirred up here.
For what it is worth, my Sensei's views
(I share them , fancy that :D ) is that ki is a good term for good body mechanics, mental intention, and focus.
I care little for the religion - based aspects of Aikido, but love the discipline of its form and find a lot of value in the traditions....kind of a mixed signals thing, eh?
The ideal of, at least, ATTEMPTING to "de-escalate" violence, is at least a step in the right direction for anyone, regardless of martial art discipline that is followed.
For what it is worth, I have no problem with hitting people, but am better able to NOT hit them from this training.

Self control is everything.
I guess it is only mystical in the sense that it came from another culture. More of an "exotic" thing
Lan

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Ah -- OK. Personally, I don't equate the notion of "ki" with "mysticism." Rather, I'd probably say that the kind of things that Mike Sigman writes about above (eg Shinto) would more fall along the lines of "mysticism."

There are elements of "faith" in budo training (and pretty much any other kind of endeavor), I think, though. Whether that's "mysticism" or not would probably depend on the person considing it.
Oh, of course I'd say that there are some folks out there in the world of aikido who have a problem with people who are willing to "beat the crap" out of someone. The same could probably be said about any martial art, but I'd guess that the percentage of those who have a problem with such is probably higher in aikido than, say, in krav maga. But, then again, I do know of at least one aikido T-shirt that states, "We put the 'harm' back into 'harmony'"...

On the topic of "aikido is love," the founder himself has said things like, "the path of aikido is the path of protecting love," "the path of aiki is the manifestation of love," and "true aikido is 'love'." (First two quotes from "Takemusu Aiki" and the last quote from "Aikido" (thanks, Peter!) both translated from the original Japanese by me.) The character used for "love" is, indeed, 愛. Personally, I'm far from understanding what this really means, so I can't say much about this topic.

Any way, I wouldn't say that aikido is unique in such thoughts. Even Kano sensei has written about the principle of "jita kyoei" (mutual welfare and benefit) for judo. I'm sure that those folks (myself included) who have been on the receiving end of some judo techniques will say that my impact with the earth (oof) sure didn't feel so beneficial to my health! Yet, I can understand how the principle of "jita kyoei" comes through in the actual keiko and the shugyo.

In any case, as far as the topic of those who have not taken aikido who wish to share their views, as long as they do so in a respecful manner that's conducive to meaningul exchanges of thoughts, I'm fine with their participation.

To conclude, I personally think that some interesting observations about aikido have been made by many folks in this thread. If anything, it's an exercise to help delineate my own thoughts in the matter...

Best,

-- Jun

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Once I come across a Taoist saying:-

Man follows the mandate (rules) of heaven;
Heaven follows the mandate of the Way (Do or Tao);
And the Way follows that which is natural.

-Lao Tzu, a Taoist sage

When I think abt this, I feel that aikido or any of the do art is a system of education that points to the direction of being natural or in compliance with what is natural or in harmony. Mysticism should not be attached to it. Mysticism denotes a very low level of intelligence to explain things.

The concept of Ki or chi is IMO a concept that man develop to explain certain physical aspect that maybe modern science has yet to provide an answer. After more than 5,000 years, this term is still in use. I am wondering whether if we are so attached to this term or rather, if mankind still have need for this term/concept as we still have many issues that cannot be answered by conventional scientific knowledge.

IMO Aikido is devoid of mysticism. It is only practitioners who attach mysticism or supernaturality to it. Hence it can be said mysticism is man-made not natural.

FWIW and my two cents,

Boon.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

This is done, indirectly, by certain individuals within sports. I doubt you hear it much in Nascar but you get it indirectly within golf and definitely within baseball although it's presented differently. I bet you could also find it within hunting or similar activities. Aikidoists, however, seldom use those terms to refer to a sport or activity. Better to deride it for allowing competition.

That being said, I agree and disagree with much of what you wrote. Morihei Ueshiba, as Don pointed out, clearly came from a mystical realm and seemingly bought into a lot of stuff I would frankly deem as crap. But, he was what he was and you can't entirely disregard it.

However, at the same time, trying to model everything: diet, no water during training, breathing exercises, etc. when you have no basis to define if any of it accomplishes anything seems dumb too. Maybe Ueshiba ate the diet he did because he couldn't find a steak and with more protein in his diet he would have grown taller and been twice as good as he was? So we come along as the knuckleheads we are and eat a macrobiotic diet like Ueshiba did because, well, that's what he did for a part of his life. And he was really good. And we want to be just like him.

All the spiritual blather sometimes seems exactly the same to me, but you can't just disregard it either, if only for a historical understanding of where the art came from.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

Look at the name of the art: Aikido. Whether or not ki exists, O Sensei certainly believed in it, and it's right there in the name of the art.

Towards the end of his life, O Sensei thought of traiding the "Aiki" characters that mean "harmony" to "Aiki" that means love.

Except that the martial artist who did that would be guilty of being grossly disrepectuful to the founder, and failing to to his job of preserving and passing on what was passed to him.

My Kali teacher, who also has permission to teach Pentjak Silat Serak, is constantly emphasizing his role as preserving the arts he is teaching. Martial arts is not just about teaching someone a skill -- it is about passing on part of a culture. That's even true of Jun Fan/JKD; that's why their terminology is in Cantonese. It may even be true of Western Boxing -- you just don't notice the culture becaue we're in it. WRT Serak, Andy always said, "It is very important to do things exactly the way I show you," in no small part to show proper hormat or respect to the founder of the art, Pak Sera, and his disciples.

I don't see why this doesn't apply to Aikido. You are not just teaching joint locks and throws -- you can learn those anywhere. You are getting a small part of Japanese culture that has been refracted through O Sensei's vision. And if the "mystical nonsense" is an important part of what O Sensei wants passed down, then you'd damn well better pass it down, or you are not doing your job as an Aikido student/teacher. Yet it is very odd/dsiconcerting to come to Aikido, supposedly a "traditional" art, and find people 180 degrees from someone in the "non-traditional" arts WRT the role of preservation. I've had that drummed into me for over a year: That part of what we do is to preserve what we are given so it doens't vanish from the face of the Earth. Aikido may have had fifty years to establish itself in the West, but that doesn't make that job any less important.

If you want to learn how to fight, don't go to anyone for formal training in anything. Just move to a bad neighborhood and get in fights every day. Martial arts is about more than that. And if you can't see that or refuse to accept it, then maybe you should ask yourself if you are doing the right thing with your disposable income.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

That is excellent! Being that Hapkido and Aikido mean the same thing in their respective languages, I may just have to borrow that t-shit idea.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I don't have a problem with spirituality and I don't have a problem with people freely expressing their religious views. I just find it annoying and a bit pretentious when people use Aikido or any other martial art as a way to promote their religion when a great deal of people are there to learn a martial art.

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I always like the anecdote about aikido in which someone asks Ueshiba "I would like to learn your aikido", whereupon Ueshiba replies "that's funny, everyone else wants to learn their own aikido".

The point being that aikido is more of a personal exploration than a set standard. However, I agree that most mystesism (can't spell!) is just stuff repeated by others, whereas in rare cases it does express a real understanding that cannot be put in conventional terms (for example, I consider ki to be a 'model' of how things work, and one which is flawed, but is simpler for explaining many things). However, we must critically assess all the information which we obtain - and I believe that is a big problem with aikido.

Technological advancement is not done specifically because people are clever, but because people can record knowledge for future generations, and future generations can critically appraise this (whether deductive reasoning or empirical reasoning). As an aikido community we need to get together and produce falsifiable hypotheses i.e. underlying fundamentals in aikido which can be tested and refined or rejected. We are still in a stage where different aikido clubs do radically different things, and there has been no effort to objectively assess the advantages and disadvantages (possibly because an assessment in the dojo is nothing like an assessment within real combat).

Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
 

I've never been exactly sure how to handle some of the things O-Sensei did toward the end of his life. He was emotionally erratic, often irrascible, and treated with kid-gloves because of his temper outbursts (not always was he like this, but enough so that it was a common conversation). He awarded a woman dance teacher a 10th dan in Aikido and was seen in public demonstrations with her... notice how it's very difficult to find any mention of this in the literature. In other words, there was a certain amount of behavior and pronouncements that most of the Japanese surrounding O-Sensei sort of studiously avoid talking about.

So when it gets down to the "Aikido is Love" part, I would have several questions about it, if I wanted to be sure I understood what he was talking about. First of all, I'd want to be sure that the "love" translation really equates to the concept of "love" that westerners are thinking about when they hear that term. Secondly, I'd want to know how old he was when he made that pronouncement. Thirdly, I'd look at the uchi-deshi of the time and see how much their training focuses on and mentions "Aikido is love".... if it's not a big factor in what they say or train, then I wouldn't put a lot of weight onto the "Aikido is love" idea. ;)

FWIW

Mike