Jamming a technique
Hi all,
Can anyone define exactly what constitute a "jam". For example, is a very firm grip on a senior yudansha consider a jam? Preventing a technique from working - a jam? Not knowing a technique and unable to flow with the nage - a jam? And, when is a jam polite and when it is not? Hope to hear from you. Best training David Y |
Re: Jamming a technique
IMHO, initiate and intercept before the approach/attack reaches its maximum power extension on the intended target, usually ends up taking their balance.
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Yes. No. The situation as such is more complicated than that, but with regards to jamming: that's just poor execution by nage. Quote:
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Re: Jamming a technique
It's a jam when uke blocks tori from attacking their own centre via the technique because they know what's coming next and purposefully move to avoid it.
It's probably only ok to jam if tori is about to inflict injury on uke or throw uke into somebody else or the wall. Ruth |
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It's not what is "polite" it's what makes sense martially. If someone stops your technique but is totally "open" then "jamming" in that way was not martially effective. Ones partner should make one aware of this by hitting him. "Jamming" is usually used effectively as a "bounce". I "jam" your movement and let your power rebound off my power then I give the movement a new direction. "Jamming" can also be used to simply crush your opponent's defenses for striking purposes. Simply stopping someone's technique is not good ukemi. If you grab someone strongly so they can't do a technique but they are still able to strike you or kick you, then it was bad ukemi. So if that's what is meant by "jamming" than it' not a good idea. |
Re: Jamming a technique
Its worth considering that jamming (stopping movement) has diminishing returns and is really not a way to go. It is far more effective and useful to "change" and keep movement going. A bounce-or the way I would bounce people- is all about redirecting force, not hitting power to power. At no time do I ever consider power-to-power acceptable. Even when for all intent and purpose it looks to an outsider like a crashing of forces it is not at all what is happening, even with straight jabs-to-jabs and stick-to-stick. The displacement goes all but unseen, it leaves them wondering why they can't get in, but conversely can't avoid you coming in, and they just keep getting hit and controlled.
I like nothing better than for an attacker to think he has what he wants...till it's taken away. Misdirection, either by adding or taking away is far more effective martially. It's all about change not stopping or jamming. The only real difference I see is what MAers do -or should I say HAVE to do in order to make change. For many its all about big body changes and telegraphed movements that are easily read and responded to. There are far superior ways to move that become extremely ghosty then...wham! And you didn't feel where it came from, didn't "read" any perceived movement- as there is no wind up- and your every move is under someone else's control! Aiki works in Aikido, Daito ryu, judo, MMA, and any kind of weapon use and at full speed. Cheers Dan |
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I agree with everything you've said. I was thinking primarily of techniques like the one Ellis taught us years ago to reverse a shiho nage. It did involve a movement that I would call "jamming" (you struck your own arm to prevent the opponent from passing it throufg to the lock) but it also flowed instantly into a redirection. It did have an element of power to power and it felt like you'd hit a wall when it was done to you. Since the redirection was instantaneous it might not really qualify as "jamming"; it was definitely a "bounce". - George |
Re: Jamming a technique
Onegaishimasu. Resisting a technique could be called 'causing a jam'.I tell my students that resisting technique prevents your partner from learning the technique and we are on the mat to help each other learn, not prevent each other from learning.
In gassho, Mark |
Re: Jamming a technique
Hi George
Sure, there are any number of techniques like that, from any number of arts. I think all of us can draw on things we know for examples. I was never a fan of bouncing people out or allowing them to roll away anyway. While I greatly admire Ueshiba choosing to go down that road, I prefer to keep people in contact with me and controlled from various contact points offered by them or me. My previous comments were based on current training and the path that certain people are now undertaking to develop real aiki and be able to use it. IOW, for the aiki based crowd who are genuinely interested in an Aiki approach that "actually" works across the full spectrum of combatives from aikido to Daito ryu to judo to MMA. In order to make that work, people need to effect change with every point of contact; be it fients, jabs, grabs, or throws. The real key is people simply cannot do it well without a conditioned aiki body behind it, but having a conditioned body is only the beginning, there are "ways" to use that body with developed internal skills- that are not waza related, rather they are an adaptive fluid approach to all combatives. IME, developed internal power and the knowledge of how to actually use it are most certainly NOT all the same. Cheers Dan P.S.Hey did you get my two text messages in reply to your email? I was doing a seminar in Florida and didn't have email access. |
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Re: Jamming a technique
Thanks, everyone, for your replies.
I have branded as a "Jammer". I was wondering whether I fit the profile of one. So far, I am safe. I tend to agree with Dan. Aiki is about seeking the path of least resistance (changing directions) rather than going against the resistance. I get irritated by nage who jerks or bounces me around instead of doing a free flowing technique on me. To avoid injury, the jerking and bouncing cause me to stiffen up and assume a defensive stance. Perhaps this is jamming as far as they are concerned. Best training, David Y |
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Some folk need to learn a bit of muscle maturity - to me the ones who drag and jerk you around are like toddlers flailing their arms about with full force and zero control :uch: Fortunately most people get this control, but there are always a few who don't, in which case you have to do what you need to do to protect yourself :) Ruth |
Re: Jamming a technique
David, personally I think if you 'jam' someone because he's only using brute force to throw you, you are ok. Unless of course you're doing it to a beginner who doesn't know anything better. But it depends on nage really. If he's not interested in finding the aiki solution in his training, then don't bother jamming his technique, just flop like an aiki bunny. Saves you a lot of grief in the end.
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In Aikido we learn from our partner, if your partner is not letting u perform your tech, then its bad for both of you and its bad ukemi, if u are both training on switching from one tech to the other, then uke should provide only moderate resistance so nage can feel and redirect to another tech, aikido is cooperative training so all can learn.
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Re: Jamming a technique
Just for fun
Jamming -verb. When Uke stops or prevents Nage from executing a set technique. Most often found in the wild in the following circumstances 1. When visiting another dojo, where everyone is friendly except the 2ic who needs to mark dojo/style turf (possibly under instruction from sensei)best, dan |
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Agreed. Aiki-do practice is Yin practice. Both partners practising pre-agreed movements and even at randori at higher level. I have been training for 17 years and it is not in my nature to jam anyone's technique unless (as Ruth has indicated) I feel the tori is about to inflict injury to me by not availing to me the space to take ukemi or by excessive use of force. As a tori, I sometime initiate a bit of resistance ("to pull in the slack") in order to search for my partner's center. As a uke, I am very conscious of my action and I know when to offer constructive resistance but never destructive resistance. Best training David Y |
Re: Jamming a technique
Hi all,
Another action by Nage that "irritates" and put me into a defensive mode. Irimi nage, Tori places his hand on my face with his fingers on or about my eyes. For me, this is an accident/major eye injury waiting to be happened. In my class, I encourage students to place their hands on Uke's neck or side of the face with fingers away from the eyes area and alert them the danger. When someone puts pressure about my eyes, instinctively, I will push his/her hand away. Is my action consider a jam? David Y |
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Very interesting!
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We often practice with uke giving strong resistance and with uke trying to hinder the technique. We don't change the technique but try to modify it so we can do it instead. Don't you practice this way? If not: What are your ways then to learn to deal with not cooperating uke? Carsten |
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Best training David Yap |
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Thank you for answering!
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But what I meant is, that - from a certain level on - taking over the action is a normal and expected behavior of our uke everytime we practice. So, I am not sure but maybe, what here is called "to jam a technique" could be the expected behavior of uke in our practice. Quote:
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We do have a lot of strikes in our aikido. Some of us do makiwara-Training. Greetings, Carsten |
Re: Jamming a technique
Hello,
In training, Morihiro Saito would say that both uke and nage should feel like they are moving through molasses. There are a couple of reasons to do this. One is it builds up your muscular strength and postural muscles (internal?) and you will know when your body is not in alignment because it will be very hard to move uke. Also you can feel when you have uke's balance because they will not be able to give much resistance. Basically it is not that good to go to both extremes, like being too cooperative or shutting someone down. Best, Eric |
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Happy training. David Y |
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Re: Jamming a technique
IMHO most "jammers" work from either the position of ego and or the pre-knowledge of the technique and therefore the manner in which they can resist it.
I have rarely learned anything from a jammer other than about their personality/attitude. When faced with a jammer I like to stand there an smile and then allow them to do the technique on me as I perform the role of Uke to help them to work on their flow and technique. As uke I am working on my flexibility and discovering places I might reverse the technique or apply a good atemi (in my mind). Cheers |
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