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-   -   Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'.......... (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10146)

Man of Aiki 04-11-2006 09:36 PM

Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
promoted by Glenn R. Premru.

You see, I signed on and joined a dojo in Corpus Christi, Texas after a long layoff in training in March of 2005, just over a year ago. I attended for just over one 'semester', at which time Shihan Dan Vella was charging:

$70/year Association Fee
$250/semester fee (A semester being 3 months)

At the time he was calling his school the Kuden Shugyo Dojo (and also the Sanban Kaigan School of Aikido), and was claiming Affiliation with the Hombu Dojo in Japan.

The registration form and release of liability I signed to join the school stated in many places things like "Any and all payment to SKAA (Sanban Kaigan Aikido Association), Hombu Dojo and Chief Instructor/Headmaster, Dan Vella Shihan that I make.....yadda yadda yadda.

The words 'Hombu Dojo' and 'Dan Vella Shihan' appear in this release form about seven times.

Now I mostly enjoyed my time training there. It was fun to be doing Aikido again after such a long layoff, and Sensei Vella was a really nice guy and I liked him.

But I found out that he has no affiliation with the Hombu Dojo whatsoever, and he very likely isn't really a 5th Dan.

My 3rd month training with Sensei Vella, I had a young Hispanic fellow I was training with that was a brown belt under Dan's system that often had to stop and try to remember basic steps to an Ikkyo or a Gokkyo.

I saw that several times, and I was out of shape so I just went along with it, happy to be training again but by the 4th month I was there it was becoming apparent these younger kids I was training with who were brown belt level couldn't even do 3rd Kyu level Aikido.

They kept telling me to 'slow down' and 'not so hard'. I was actually going half-speed with them. They were like robots. My previous instructor, Hector Chavez, with whom I trained for about 4 years, taught me to flow through the techniques with an unbroken rhythym, but these guys had been taught to mechanically stop after each step.

Shiho-nage: I'm used to full power, full speed yokomenuchi that's coming right for my temple. Time and time again they are throwing some half-hearted swipe about a foot in front of my face. In slow motion no less.

So I start the technique and in one motion take their arm, unbalance them, lock the elbow, step in, pivot and bring the arm over and take them down.

And they hop up and go 'Too fast! Slow down!"

So then it's my turn to receive the technique, and as I've been taught for over 4 years, I go slow for them, but my hand really is coming for their temple, and there is some force behind it.

"Too hard! Not so hard!"

And they don't blend at all, they just reach out, yank my arm down without unbalancing me, stop,,,,pivot...stop...bring the arm up and over....stop.....then cut down.

These were BROWN BELTS?

I was having serious doubts by now and did some checking. That's when I discovered that Dan Vella's Sensei was Glenn R Premru.

And I did some checking on-line.

And found stuff like this:

http://www.viewusedcars.com/smoka-usa/premru2.htm
http://www.viewusedcars.com/smoka-usa/premru3.htm
http://www.azalmanac.com/AzMostWanted031304.htm
(That's right - Dan Vella may have been promoted by a wanted felon)

Yeah, it's the same guy all right
http://www.collectivesociety.com/teachers/premru.html

Gee, and he's in Arizona, too (look halfway down the page and notice how just about everybody named here is a 'GrandMaster' of some kind)

http://www.bushido.org/whfsc/whfsc14.htm

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache...&icp=1&.intl=us

BTW, here's a copy of an e-mail in which Premru impersonated a bank fraud investigator, something that was probably part of his scam that led to his being arrested by the U.S. Postal Service:

http://www.goldhaven.com/discussion/messages/1401.html

(Take a close look at footnote #7 on this page.
http://webhome.idirect.com/~glska/page_42.htm

"In November 2002, Glenn Robert Premru was arrested for mail fraud in connection with bogus martial arts certificates issued under an elaborate mail order scheme. As a result, the credentials of every member of the Okinawan Karate Federation and affiliated organizations under Premru have been discredited."

Yikes.

And all that happened in 2002, about 3 years before I walked into a dojo where the Sensei claimed to have been elevated to 5th Dan by this guy.

Just goes to show folks, even in Aikido people will lie and misrepresent themselves to you. Know who your Sensei's Sensei is and what their affiliations really are. I wouldn't say I wasted that entire 4 months, but it does irk me somewhat that I put money into the pocket of a nice guy that misrepresented himself to me because he wanted to play Shihan.

Brian Cates
manofaiki2003@yahoo.com

Richard Langridge 04-12-2006 06:11 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Wow, scary stuff. Amazing how long something like that can go unnoticed...

Mark Freeman 04-12-2006 06:20 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
I always feel sorry for the students of these 'inflated grade' teachers. They think they are getting something that they are not, as your practice with them proved. :(

regards,
Mark

Ron Tisdale 04-12-2006 07:21 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Just a couple of days ago, someone was asking about e-budo, and the 'atmosphere' there. The story above is exactly why e-budo forumites are as tough as they are. Cheats like these rip people off, lie, sometimes injure people...sometimes worse. Then their supporters come on and make excuses (his technique is good, he's a nice guy, etc.). Blarney. THey are crooks and belong in jail.

Best,
Ron

Jorge Garcia 04-12-2006 07:57 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
This has all been mentioned in a thread that came up a while ago. I may have posted that "wanted notice" here. As I said before, in 1995, Dan was wearing a white belt and had no rank to my knowledge. His teacher told me at that time that Dan didn't believe in testing. When my teacher, Hiroshi Kato, 8th Dan form the Aikikai Hombu Dojo was in Corpus Christi in 1997, Dan came to the seminar and watched but I was told by three of his students who attended the seminar that Dan had proclaimed to them that they should not attend Kato Sensei's seminar. I wonder why? They came anyway. Look for my previous posts on the subject.
I know Hector Chavez. He is my sempai and was an outstanding aikidoist.He was a lot better than Dan was in 1995 but I know Hector isn't claiming a 5th dan today!
Best,

SeiserL 04-12-2006 07:57 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Be careful when trying to expose frauds. The general public tends to shoot the messenger, defend the underdog, and generally criticize you for publicly making them aware that they just may have been taken.

BTW, nice investigative work.

Compliments and appreciation.

Jorge Garcia 04-12-2006 08:05 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
There is a legitimate instructor of Aikido in Corpus Christi at the Academy of Asian Martial Arts. He is Joel Molina, 2nd Dan, Aikikai. Here's his web page and info about his affiliation.

http://www.academyofasianmartialarts...an_bao_008.htm
http://www.shudokanaikido.com/module....php?storyid=6

Ron Tisdale 04-12-2006 08:17 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Hi Lynn,

That shoot the messenger thing is bullocks. That is the problem...people try to make all sorts of excuses for the bad behavior, and try to project all kinds of nonsense on the person speaking up. It's the victims that need support...not the perpetrators.

That said...we all do also have to keep in mind that what some charlatan does half a continent away does not really affect our own practice. Moderation in all things is best.

Best,
Ron

justinmaceachern 04-12-2006 08:44 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
You know it appears to me that once you become a sodan, most devellop there own organization. i know a fellow that is supposly a fourth degree, but is only reconized as a 2nd in japan. This shows me that a lot of these "masters" are "selling out". Thats why we have to be carefull who you train with. I wouldnt even put my freinds black belt up against a white belt from a real school. That is all for me. have a good day

aikidoc 04-12-2006 09:48 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Some time back, I had a rather large thread on the issue of frauds and a sokey dokey organizations awarding inflated ranks. A result was a section I have put up on my web site here: http://members.cox.net/aikidoc1/ChoosingInstructor.htm. All things being said, there is some reasonable advice in the section that should keep most people out of such schools.

It's so easy to make yourself look impressive.
1. High rank-awarded by someone of high rank-whether fraud or not.
2. Use misleading terms: aikikai, hombu, shihan, etc. Even if you use them in such a way they are technically accurate, they can be made to sound or make you sound impressive.
3. Secret stuff-the military connection, secret or non-verifiable instructors.
4. Lots of awards-it doesn't matter the source. Just post them on your website.

I could go on and on on this one.

My recommendation. It's your hard earned money, spend the time to check out what you are buying.

aikidoc 04-12-2006 10:50 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
[quote=Ron Tisdale] Then their supporters come on and make excuses (his technique is good, he's a nice guy, etc.).

These guys always seem to have their share of supporters. Probably because they get inflated grades as well or the instructor is a charismatic BS artist.

crbateman 04-12-2006 11:52 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
I think some of the confusion happens when people toss around the term "hombu dojo". This literally means "headquarters school". By itself, it does not mean Aikikai headquarters, Yoshinkan headquarters, Ki no Kenkyukai headquarters, or any other headquarters in particular. Anybody can name his own system, give himself rank, and call his dojo "hombu dojo". This is unfortunate, but it, in itself, is not the core problem. The problem is that the uninitiated might buy into it, because they don't know the difference, and the dishonest instructor might encourage that misunderstanding for his own gain. It's simple enough for anyone to ask an instructor WHICH "hombu dojo" he/she is affiliated with, and then check him out. There is no need to be deceived. Become more informed. Caveat emptor.

SeiserL 04-12-2006 11:58 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:
Hi Lynn, That shoot the messenger thing is bullocks. That is the problem...people try to make all sorts of excuses for the bad behavior, and try to project all kinds of nonsense on the person speaking up. It's the victims that need support...not the perpetrators.

That was absolutely my point.
I have been the messenger.
Buyer beware.
Do your homework.
Choose wisely.

crbateman 04-12-2006 12:13 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
I think some of the confusion happens when people toss around the term "hombu dojo". This literally means "headquarters school". By itself, it does not mean Aikikai headquarters, Yoshinkan headquarters, Ki no Kenkyukai headquarters, or any other headquarters in particular. Anybody can name his own system, give himself rank, and call his dojo "hombu dojo". That is unfortunate, but in itself, is not the core problem. The problem is that the uninitiated might buy into it, because they don't know the difference, and the dishonest instructor might encourage that misunderstanding for his own gain. It's simple enough for anyone to ask an instructor WHICH "hombu dojo" he/she is affiliated with, and then check him out. There is no need to be deceived. Become more informed. Caveat emptor.

aikidoc 04-12-2006 12:34 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Even though listed on the aiki-web dojo listing, the site is no longer valid. Did they just disappear or did they get so much flak from e-budo that they removed themselves from the internet.

To echo Jorge, Joel Molina is a good instructor and part of our organization under Hiroshi Kato sensei, legitimate aikikai 8th dan (aikikai number is 6).

Man of Aiki 04-12-2006 05:39 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
I must humbly admit that I attended two sessions at Sensei Molina's Aikido By The Bay dojo at the time I was looking for a school to attend last March.

I liked what I saw, but the '5th Dan' and 'Hombu Dojo' affiliation that Sensei Vella talked about misled me. Also, he did have about 9 or 10 students per class, while Sensei Molina only had 3 regulars that I saw both times I attended.

Whoops.

So I ended up making a bad decision based on false claims and gave a guy claiming a false Dan rank over $400 of my money in a 3 1/2 month period.

I fully intend to return to Sensei Molina's school and continue training there.

And yes, it is true that the aikidothirdcoast site is now inoperative. I haven't been by Vella's school in over 10 months, so I suspect he closed down.

What hurts is that he was a nice guy, and I liked him, and he does have skill at Aikido. So did Larry Salazar, the first Aikido Sensei I had back in 1998. But I discovered two late neither one had the rank they claimed, and neither one was really affiliated with anyone genuine.

The end result is I have almost 5 years of Aikido training and no official standing or rank with any organization anywhere.

So, learn from my experienc, guys.

crbateman 04-12-2006 07:28 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Brian, many will say that the acquisition of rank is secondary to learning. If you have benefited from the training, then your time was not wasted. You don't wear your belt outside the dojo, and inside the dojo, it is covered by your hakama. A belt is just a thing. What's more important is who you are, and how you benefit yourself and others.

aikidoc 04-12-2006 08:06 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Brian-does have a valid point though. You pay for something that you expect is legitimate. Then you find your rank or training is of little value outside the limited world of that dojo. THere are many arts that have gone that route-rank is meaningless except for your own school. Yes, the training is training and hopefully you did learn something of value.

A while back, there was a thread on E-budo along the same lines. A guy thought he was getting "aikikai" training and then when he went to California and tried to go into an aikikai dojo he was basically told what he learned was not aikikai level or even remotely related. Needless to say he was pissed off. One cannot really blame him as the instructor in question did claim a high rank and did put aikikai style on his website.

So along the buyer beware line of thought, here are some things I'd suggest:
1. Check out the lineage and see if it goes anywhere legitimate.
2. Check out to see if the person actually studied under the claimed lineage. There are those that go to a seminar and suddenly claim to be a student of the shihan even though the shihan has no clue they even exist.
3. When in doubt go with what you can verify. Someone claiming a non-verifiable rank, even though higher, may not be any more skilled than someone with a lower legitimate rank.
4. Beware of ranks awarded by people who are not legitimate aikidoka-sorry but sokey dokey organizations are awarding ranks even when no one has legimitate aikido credentials. One guy is even doing ranks up to nidan on video-he was doing 5th dan until I called him on it. He then backed down that level to only the nidan level-still bs in my opinion. The guy he has doing the rank training is not involved with a traditional school.
5. Some independent organizations are very good and come from legitimate lines. However, realize that your rank-especially at the dan level-is likely to not be recognized by anyone else other than the organization awarding it.
6. I would not sign any long term contracts when checking out a school.

Just some thoughts. The frauds are out there. When in doubt go with something safe. If the instructor is not willing to talk about his or her credentials or are evasive about affiliations-run.

Jorge Garcia 04-12-2006 09:34 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Here in Houston, one of my instructors was called to teach in a mixed martial arts dojo. They have had a sign that says Aikido on it for years but when he went in and taught there for a few weeks, he found out that they didn't know any Aikido. The students caught on too and they didn't like it. They realized that they were taken for idiots. They walk in to a place that says, Aikido, Tai kwondo and Judo. They say they want to sign up for Aikido and then are taken aside and taught Judo. You realize later they just wanted your money so they poked your eyes and took you to the cleaners. Some of them are thinking of leaving there because of that.
If character counts, would you really want to have someone like that as a teacher?

crbateman 04-12-2006 10:43 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Quote:

Jorge Garcia wrote:
If character counts, would you really want to have someone like that as a teacher?

No, you probably wouldn't. But as the consumer, it's still ultimately your responsibility to judge for yourself and do your own research. You cannot control what someone else says about their qualifications. You can only control what those claims mean to you.

Richard Langridge 04-13-2006 07:16 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
What scares me is that there are these fraudsters out there teaching a very physical and potentially dangerous art with conviction, and that people trust them. It's deeply wrong.

aikidoc 04-13-2006 07:33 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
This level of misrepresentation is ,as pointed out, about the almighty buck. I know of one situation where the instructor is teaching a credit college class. Unfortunately, the college does not realize or fails to check out anything other than a credential most likely made up by the instructor. I've thoroughly checked the person out based on claims made and I have been unable to even substantiate that his instructor even exists. I even tried mailing everyone I could find with the same last name to see if they heard of the instructor's instructor. Zero.

What is unfortunate is the college students are coming away thinking they learned aikido. Most could not even roll after 1 or 2 semesters of college "aikido". Having lived in Southern California for years and attending a lot of seminars, I have seen a lot of different styles. If this guy's style is not either out of a book or jiu jitsu or some techniques learned in hapkido then I would be amazed. If he was told it was aikido, he was duped. If he was, I do feel sorry for him and his students. However, the college is being either intentionally or unintentionally defrauded. What is even worse, is he is not even qualified by degree to teach given the colleges own criteria (requires a bachelor's degree). He is riding on the credentials of someone else. Another element of fraud.

Unfortunately, the legal ramifications make it difficult to do anything about it. With modern computers, people can print up fancy looking certificates and fake about anything.

Marc Kupper 04-13-2006 11:44 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Quote:

John Riggs wrote:
This level of misrepresentation is ,as pointed out, about the almighty buck. I know of one situation where the instructor is teaching a credit college class. Unfortunately, the college does not realize or fails to check out anything other than a credential most likely made up by the instructor. I've thoroughly checked the person out based on claims made and I have been unable to even substantiate that his instructor even exists. I even tried mailing everyone I could find with the same last name to see if they heard of the instructor's instructor. Zero.

Something I've wished for is that organizations (Aikikai, Yoshinkan, Ki no Kenkyukai, etc.) and also federations (USAF, ASU, etc.) would posts lists of all the dan grades they have issued. Ideally for each person listed you could then pull up a list a when they were awarded each rank, circumstances, etc.
Quote:

Brian Cates wrote:
They kept telling me to 'slow down' and 'not so hard'. I was actually going half-speed with them. They were like robots. My previous instructor, Hector Chavez, with whom I trained for about 4 years, taught me to flow through the techniques with an unbroken rhythym, but these guys had been taught to mechanically stop after each step.

There are teaching systems for Aikido that deconstruct the techniques and work on getting the student proficient in the pieces before it's all put together. Another teaching system will use flow from the beginning and accept that the technique's overall efficiency will improve with practice. Both are valid instructional systems but a student from one visiting or moving to a dojo that uses the other will feel pretty out of place and may feel that things are being done "wrong." Thus for that dojo they were right -- you apparently needed to slow down and work on learning things their way to practice in their dojo.

Overall -- it does seem like an unfortunate situation. From what I can see on his web site, Dan Vella is a USAF shodan than for some reason hooked up with Glenn R. Premru who "promoted" Vella to 5th dan. Vella did not try to hide any of this and now seems to be out of business.

giriasis 04-13-2006 11:51 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Well, the USAF does list all their fukushidoin, shidoin and shihan on their website. And all new dan promotions are listed, too.

giriasis 04-13-2006 11:58 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Also, my first school was with people who part of a "everyone becomes a soke organization." I was told it was very unusual for someone to become a 'soke' then I went to a seminar and each head instructor was a "soke." That was after about 6 months of training with them when I realized they were full of it.

Oh, this problem is the reason I'm a big advocate of newbies of asking the instructors background. If they get all out of joint "like how dare you ask" or "how rude it is to ask about my background" then my advise is to steer clear of such people. Also, my advice is if they list about ten different high ranking ranks then they need to be suspicious. If you haven't been duped then your lucky. But putting off airs that you people should not ask about your rank, background or lineage (even if you come from a decent well known association/ style) makes it easier for these kinds to pull off their fraud.

MaryKaye 04-13-2006 01:52 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
A useful question for instructors is "How do you feel about your students attending seminars outside your school?"

If they say, "That's fine" or "That will be fine once your ukemi skills are up to it, but not initially" those are reassuring answers. If they rant about how bad other teachers are, that's not. You'll have to make up your own mind about "I don't encourage mixing of styles" but I personally find that response disturbing. It can serve as a screen for "I don't dare allow you to compare my aikido with anyone else's."

I am very comfortable with my style and association in part because I've been able to train at a variety of other schools, and I know that what I'm being taught holds up. I can't always make things work (I wouldn't be a kyu rank if I could) but I don't feel myself to be at a disadvantage in learning compared to rankmates elsewhere. And I am still comfortable with my teachers' aikido and teaching, having compared them with some of the best people around.

Mary Kaye

James Kelly 04-13-2006 02:11 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
ASU also lists new dan promotions on their website annually. (But it doesn't really help if the person you're looking for hasn't tested in the last year.) I agree, an aikikai wide, or an organization wide list of all active members above, say, 3rd Dan would be good, but it may be too much work.

mriehle 04-13-2006 02:45 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Quote:

James Kelly wrote:
I agree, an aikikai wide, or an organization wide list of all active members above, say, 3rd Dan would be good, but it may be too much work.

Well, it occurs to me that most organizations (that I know of) have some sort of hard listing of all dan ranks. In New School Aikido it's a printed list protected by clear plastic on the wall of the dojo.

It's a lot of typing, but it seems to me like a database like this would be useful on a lot of levels.

But...

...it can't be generally searchable. Privacy issues would start to come into play. It's fine to look up an instructor and check his credentials, but what about some guy just walking in off the street? Who should be allowed to search his name?

Offhand, I think it should only be a prospective instructor. Even then, there needs to be a good reason. One good reason, of course, would be that they have a desire to recognize previous rank for a new student. But I can see an unscrupulous sort searching for shodans at nearby schools and trying to lure them away. (It doesn't make sense to me, but I've heard of similar stunts.)

I'm an instructor and a dojo cho, so I don't particularly care who knows what my rank is (Nidan, if you care) or where I got it (New School Aikido in Stockton, CA). But there are a lot of shodans (and nidans and sandans and ...) at my teacher's school that would just as soon not advertise their rank.

giriasis 04-13-2006 02:58 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
For me it's not so much that you advertise your rank, but whether a person is straight forward about it. It's the puffery or defensiveness that I look for in the response.

Jorge Garcia 04-13-2006 03:38 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Quote:

Marc Kupper wrote:
From what I can see on his web site, Dan Vella is a USAF shodan than for some reason hooked up with Glenn R. Premru who "promoted" Vella to 5th dan. Vella did not try to hide any of this and now seems to be out of business.

I'm afraid you have fallen victim to the terminology on Dan Vela's website!
Dan was not only not a USAF shodan, he may never even have been a member of the USAF!
He attended a seminar with Akira Tohei but he never tested under him at all. Dan was a white belt when I joined the dojo in 1995.His teacher (there were two in our dojo) told me that Dan didn't believe in testing (By the way, his teacher who told me that has also never tested for any Aikikai rank I know of, although he was and is an excellent Aikidoist).
Then there was a split in the dojo. Half was USAF and half was studying Steven Seagal style and didn't like the USAF. Dan left the dojo with the Seagal group and reappeared at the Corpus Christi Athletic Club as the weapons teacher. That's why many of us were surprised to see that Dan was using Akira Tohei on his website years later since when we were there, some of us were under the impression that Dan didn't care for him.

Marc Kupper 04-13-2006 04:16 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Quote:

James Kelly wrote:
ASU also lists new dan promotions on their website annually. (But it doesn't really help if the person you're looking for hasn't tested in the last year.) I agree, an aikikai wide, or an organization wide list of all active members above, say, 3rd Dan would be good, but it may be too much work.

I agree that some organizations posts lists of recent promotions. Something that would not seem like "too much work" would be to start a new web page for each year. For example, the current year can be Promotions.html and at the end of this year you'll rename it to Promotions-2006.html and start a new Promotions.html for 2007. If you keep the page layout consistent then someone could then import the pages into a database or spreadsheet to look for trends.

Man of Aiki 04-13-2006 10:11 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Thanks for all the great comments, people.

I am looking forward to training again, and for the first time with an affiliated school headed by a Sensei that has an actual ranking by a legitimate Aikido organization.

I know I learned a lot in my 4 1/2 years of training, and probably would be at 2nd Kyu level in most systems. Still, I'm aware that I am essentially starting over and going in at 5th Kyu level.

Which is great, because I need to work my way back into shape anyway. :)

I just can't help wondering how many other students out there that have invested years in their training don't know they've been mislead.

How many 'maverick' teachers out there are like Dan or Larry, the guys I trained with? They hang around aikido dojos, have a problem with authority, don't believe in testing (for themselves, at least) and after a few years just decide they must know enough to teach now and go off and start their own school and claim an advanced Dan rank?

Corpus isn't that big and I already met two.

Jorge Garcia 04-14-2006 08:34 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
There are a class of people attracted to martial arts that don't care for authority and yet desperately want to be an authority. They want the prestige, recognition, and high rank of an authority. Being under authority is a prerequisite to being a good authority. There is an insipid pride and love of self in that kind of a person that should scare the kigeebees out of you. Regardless of how good they are, no one would want an instructor that has those kinds of internal motivations. That's why they hide behind something that isn't real. They hide behind a high rank that looks legitimate says to the world that they got under authority and legitimately proved themselves worthy by other qualified people. That's what they wanted you to think. The truth is that these kinds of people actually self promote themselves or they find someone who will, so they can have what they didn't earn, by being under a real authority. It's base self promotion.If they had the confidence that they were really that good, they wouldn't need the fake rank. They could just have said, "I have never tested or earned any high rank through an organization but I will show you my skills and you be the judge."
Listen, by not doing that, they have already self evaluated themselves and told you what they really think of their own skills.

aikidoc 04-14-2006 03:46 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
At least by not inflating their ranks, they are being honest. No matter how good you are, awarding yourself or inflating your ranks only puts your credibility or ego in question. It's sore that instant reward mentality society suffers from.

SeiserL 04-14-2006 04:27 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
OTOneH, I guess if all you are after are the physical techniques then rank or affiliation don't really matter. But at least people could be up front about it. I know a few independents who are very honorable that way. If you just want to fight, I know some great fighter without rank or affiliation at the local bar and they are honest about it.

OTOtherH, if they have to lie or falsify your credentials, buy rank, or steal an organizations, styles, or affiliations name without permission, than they must feel pretty bad about themselves, and wait in fear to be exposed. If they are lying to themselves and the general public, they will lie to you. Its who they are. No matter how good their technique is, they are still liars and thieves.

O'Sensei never want Aikido taught to people of low character, and it is my understanding that both O'Sensei and Doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba believed that Aikido was about building better people and a safer world. That can never be done with a lie.

Man of Aiki 04-14-2006 07:12 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Here's a cached link at Google.com about Dan Vella Sensei I managed to find:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...en&lr=&strip=1

The site is down, but you can view a cached text verison of what it was displaying.

here's what it said:

"Shihan Dan Vella began his formal Aikido training in his early 40's with Shihankai Akira Tohei, founder of the Midwestern Aikido Federation and head of the USAF and MAF, at Corpus Christi, Texas Aiki Kai. After receiving his Shodan (1st degree black belt) at the age of 47, he enrolled in the Okinawan Karate-do Federation (Japanese Aikido, Kendo and Iaido Division) as a student under World Soke Grandmaster Glenn R. Premru 10th Dan. He received his Ni dan (2nd degree black belt) in 1996 and was promoted to San dan (3rd degree black belt) upon receiving his teacher's license in 1999, shortly after the passing of Shihankai Akira Tohei 8th Dan.

Having become a full time professional Aikido instructor by the fall of 2000, he established Kuden Shugyo Dojo School of Aikido in Corpus Christi, Texas and was promoted to Yon Dan (4th degree black belt) in 2002. Shihan Dan Vella in March of 2003 founded and assumed his responsibilities as CEO of the Sanban Kaigan (3rd Coast) Aikido Association and was titled "Shihan" by Soke Grandmaster Premru. He was promoted to Go dan (5th degree black belt) after being appointed by Soke Premru in 2004 to the Post of "Texas State Representative for the Okinawan Karate-do Federation"."

Note how this cleverly leaves out who gave him his first Dan rank. It says he began his formal aikido Training under Sensei Tohei, but it doesn't say Tohei was the one who promoted him to 1st Dan.

All of his subsequent rank promotions came from Glenn R. Premru, who he claims to have been a student under and to have been promoted to his subsequent 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Dan levels by.

The impression is given that the Okinawan Karate-do Federation is so huge, it has it's own Japanese Aikido, Kendo and Iaido Division. A study of the various Glenn R. Premru bios easily found on the web demonstrate that while he was noted for his karate in the early 1970's, even being inducted into the Martial Arts Hall of Fame, he has absolutely no ranking in Aikido, Iaido or Kendo.

And as was discovered back in 2002, Premru's entire huge Okinawan Karate-do Federation consisted of the mail order business he ran in his house whereby he sold a substantial number of fake ranking certificates to people by mail. That's how he ended up being a wanted felon after he was arrested by the US Postal Service and then never showed up for his court appearance to answer to the charge of mail fraud.

I can only wonder how much money Dan had to give to Premru to keep the ranks coming so he could continue to live out his fantasy of being a highly ranked Aikido Sensei.

Jorge Garcia 04-14-2006 08:09 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Brian,
That is my point. Dan only did a Seminar or two with Akira Tohei. Dan only wore a white belt in our dojo before he left for the Athletic Club dojo (which was independent). That was what prompted me to ask our teacher why that was because I knew he was ahead of me. That's when I was told he had never tested because he didn't believe in it (We wore colored belts in our dojo). That means that from 1995 when I arrived, he wasn't a member of any Federation.
In the article, he mentions Shihankai at the beginning and Shihankai at the end conveniently saying,"...was promoted to San dan (3rd degree black belt) upon receiving his teacher's license in 1999, shortly after the passing of Shihankai Akira Tohei 8th Dan."
1) No one ever called Tohei Sensei Shihankai. That was the designation of the group of Shihans in the USAF. Skihankai is an organization in Japanese, not a title for a person.
2) The passing of Tohei sensei had nothing to do with Dan Vela's 3rd degree "promotion". Dan was in Corpus and Tohei was in Chicago and to my knowledge, Dan was not a member of Midwest (not Midwestern) Federation.
3) He couldn't have been promoted by Tohei because the only person in Corpus Christi, Texas to ever receive a black belt in Corpus from Tohei sensei was Eddie Martinez, one of the teachers. There were students there that were 2nd kyu when Dan was unranked who never received the black belt because the dojo eventually closed. The only students from there to ever receive an Aikikai black belt were Jorge Garcia, John Stephen Garcia, Joel Molina and Gilbert Fuentes (in that order) and none of those were from Tohei Shihan because he had died by then.
4) at one time ,Glenn Permru had been in Corpus and had run a few events there but got in trouble for not paying the bills for those events so he moved on but apparently, Dan kept in touch with him.

The worst sentence there is the opening one,
"Shihan Dan Vela began his formal Aikido training in his early 40's with Shihankai Akira Tohei, founder of the Midwestern Aikido Federation and head of the USAF and MAF, at Corpus Christi, Texas Aiki Kai. After receiving his Shodan (1st degree black belt) at the age of 47..." I am certain that Tohei Sensei never even noticed Dan. He didn't begin any training with Tohei- he attended a seminar. That is an intentional misuse of words. If the day I start Aikido, I attend a seminar with Yamada Sensei but I never see him again, I can't say I started my training under Yamada who probably didn't know I was alive!
It's bad. I'll calm down now.

Man of Aiki 04-15-2006 10:00 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Let me show the board how easy it is for a guy to train off an on in Aikido for 8 years and have little to show for it.

1997 was the year I returned to Texas from living in the U.S. Virgin Islands for 7 years. I had developed an interest in Aikido while I lived in the Virgin Islands, and had purchased Kensho Furuya's Art of Aikido video series and trained with a few friends trying to copy techniques but of course that's not the same as being in a real dojo. All they had in the V.I. was Tae Kwon Do schools and Karate. Oh, one guy was teaching Savate. I took Tae Kwon Do for 3 months before Hurricane Marilyn in 1995 blew most of the island away.

On my return to Texas in late 1997 I looked around for an Aikido school to go to. I dropped in on Gilbert Fuentes at the Corpus Christi Aikikai and took about 3 classes. My brother came with me, and we were so out of shape in the 2nd class we both injured ourselves trying to roll. I pulled a muscle in my abdomen (dang, didn't even know I HAD a muscle there!) and my brother hurt his hip, so we stopped going intending to heal up and try again later.

Only now it's around April or May 1998 and I'm working out at the Portland Community Center to get back in shape, and I see this flyer on the door advertising Aikido Classes to be taught there. Oh great, I don't have to drive all the way to Corpus any more!

So I sign up. That is when I met Larry Salazar, who at the time I believe was claiming a 3rd Dan, and Hector Chavez, Allison Gatz, and Lauren Simpkins (who went by the name 'Michi' so much I think I rolled with her for a year before I found out what her real name was!)

At the time Larry was teaching in conjunction with some fat Tae Kwon Do guy who's name I can't remember, who was a certified instructor under something called Martial Arts America, Inc. You had to sign a contract to particpate in the classes. I don't remember how long the contract ran for; it may have been two years or just one year.

Anyway, the classes themselves were great. I learned alot in them and became good friends with everybody. Classes at the Portland Community Center continued on for about six months.

Then they began dropping off. I would show up and nobody would be there. Turned out Larry and the fat TKD guy were arguing. They ended up splitting up. So because the TKD had signed the agreement for them to use the Portland Community Center, he ended the classes there.

(He would be there teaching his classes in TKD before the Aikido classes started, and when I came early I got to watch him. He had a grand total of two students, and he would bark commands and watch them do kicks and stuff. He was so fat and out of shape he couldn't even get his legs above waist level, I kid you not. I think his wife was the real money-earner as she had a well-attended cardio-kickboxing workout that she did. On a side note: after the classes stopped being held at the Community Center, the guy kept trying to bill me for $200 worth of classes that were never held. I got letters from Martial Arts America for about a year and a half demanding their money. They never got another dime from me.)

So, Larry and Hector made an agreement with Gilbert at the Aikikai to start training there again. (They had left previously, as you mentioned). I think we all trained there for about 6 more months before Gilbert had to close it down.

During this time I believe I met a high-ranking Aikido Sensei at a seminar held at the Aikikai; I think the Sensei's name was Kato. The seminar was very good, although I overheated very fast due to the fact that I don't have sweat glands on 80% of my body.

About the time the Aikikai closed down, Larry and Hector arranged for Sensei Larry Reynosa to come to Corpus Christi and hold a seminar. It was a two day seminar, and it was fantastic. At least for me.

This is where Hector and Larry Salazar had their falling out. I think Hector had finally realized that Larry S. never being affiliated with anybody or testing under anyone meant he would never have a real Dan rank and if he didn't have one he couldn't give Hector a real one either.

Larry S. also didn't train much, had bad knees, and a weight problem, which made doing Aikido regularly a problem for him. And here came Larry Reynosa, direct disciple of Steven Seagal Sensei, a man who Larry S. admires greatly, and Larry R. had some harsh things to say to Larry S. while he was in town.

He told Salazar he needed to lose weight, since he had been expecting the ranking sensei of the local dojo to be his uke in the demonstrations, and instead Larry S. kept sending Hector up there.

So once or twice Sensei Reynosa made a point of directly calling up Larry Salazar to be his uke during the seminar, and it quickly became apparent in the 3 or 4 times this happened that Larry couldn't do ukemi very well at all.

The result of all this was, Larry felt Sensei Reynosa made him look bad, criticised him in front of all his students, told him he was fat and out of shape and needed to lose weight. Privately, I believe Sensei Reynosa also invited Larry to train under the auspices of Makoto Dojo, and he made the overture to Hector as well. Sensei Reynosa is directly under the authority of the Aikido World Headquarters located in Tokyo, Japan, and they recieve all Dan ranks directly from the Doshu.

The problem with that was Larry knew he'd have to start pretty much all over, put out a lot of effort to get into shape for ukemi, and then test for his Dan rank. That would be very humbling for a guy to do after he'd spent years gaining a following of students while claiming to be a 2nd and 3rd ranked Dan.

So instead, he adopted the attitude that Sensei Reynosa had ambushed him and disrespected him, and he became very upset when Hector decided to take Sensei Reynosa up on his offer to become affiliated with Makoto Dojo.

He kept turning it into a personal thing between him and Reynosa, saying things like "You can follow him if you want, but I won't follow him."

So at that point, Hector and Larry parted ways.

Now Hector held his classes in the West Oso Community Center for about 6 months, off and on, and then worked out an arrangement with Ric Ricard at Texas A & M University - Corpus Christi to hold classes there in conjunction with the TAMUCC Aikido Club.

We trained there for about a year and a half. For the first year, it was great. Larry even came out a few times and rolled with us. Then problems started to develop again. I don't think Hector and Ric were getting along too well. Both had learned different styles of Aikido and Ric just wasn't as advanced as Hector was, and he could sense people really wanted to train under Hector and so after awhile it got away from them.

They started cancelling classes a lot. Since I lived in Portland, and worked in downtown Corpus Christi, I'd get off from my job at 5:00 had until 7:30 when the class started, so I would kill an hour and a half eating dinner or something. I didn't want to drive all the way back to Portland, then have to turn around in an hour and drive all the way through Corpus to the far side of it to the University.

Of course, once class was over I still faced a 45 minute drive home. Still, the classes made it worth it.

When there was a class.

And man, let me tell you, that got to be a problem. The 3rd or 4th time I showed up when there was supposed to be a class, and several other students did too, only neither Ric or Hector showed up to unlock the door to the training room, I made sure that Hector had:

1. My phone number at work and at home
2. My cell phone number, a phone that I got just to make sure he could contact for cancellations.
3. My e-mail address

About the 12th or 13th time I showed up and no class was held, on the 45 minute drive home I just said "That's it. I can't take this any more." And I quit.

Oh, I still went back about 3 months later. Nobody home. Then another 2 or 3 months later and there was a class that night, and Gilbert was training there, which was a nice surprise. That lasted for two more classes and then two cancellations in a row and two long drives home in a row.

I quit again.

This time two years roll by in which I don't do any Aikido at all. Finally I decide to start training again, and so I do a Dojo search on the internet for Aikido schools in Corpus. The TAMUCC Aikdio club pops up. No thanks! Joel's school pop up, and I decide to give that a try. But there's also another Aikido school listed called Sanban Kaigan Aikido. So I decide to try that one too.

Aikido by the Bay is up first. I go and drop in on a class. Joel Molina, 2nd Dan is there, and I enjoy watching the class. He has two students that night and they are doing good Aikido. He interacts well with the students. I really like what I'm seeing.

But then I decide, well let's go see this other place. So I drive out to Sanban Kaigan Aikido World Headquarters and meet Dan Vella Shihan, 5th Dan.

I fell for it. Hook, line, and sinker. Gee, this guy is a 5th Dan, he's affiliated directly with the 'Hombu Dojo', he's got 10 people in his class and a bigger training area. I compared that to Joel, who was 'only' a 2nd Dan, had only 2 or 3 students in the 2 times I observed his class, and was tucked away in the back of a bigger school teaching other arts.

BIG MISTAKE.

Appearances can be decieving. As we all know now, Dan Vella was not a 5th Dan. In fact, I honestly confess that he did some impressive kata with weapons, but I never really saw him do empty-hand techniques much there. He may not even be a 2nd Dan in skill.

He just took stuff that he learned in the 10 years or so he took Aikido in other dojos and formed his own 'system', promoted himself to Dan rank, then found a Mail-Order Grandmaster that would sell him Dan ranks and opened up a school.

I spent just under 5 months training there. Then discovering I had been hoodwinked, I dropped out.

Oh, I had the idea of going to him in private and asking him what the heck he thought he was doing but since I liked the guy I decided not to confront him.

I didn't jump right back into looking for a school right away though, so since last August I've been working out in a gym and taking it easy. But sooner or later that Aikido bug starts biting me again, and I think at last after my past experiences it's time to train under somebody who's not misrepresenting himself and who actually is affiliated with a legitimate Aikido authority.

If I'd done that a year ago with Sensei Molina, I'm sure I'd be a lot better off now.

And there you have it. The Complete Aikido History of Brian Cates.

Started: Early 1998
Number of Years Since Then: 9
Years Inactive: 2 (you could say 3 with the final year of TAMUCC futility with all those cancelled classes)
Kyu ranks attained: 0
Dan Ranks attained: 0
Number of Senseis That Lied To Him About Their Ranks: 2
Number of Senseis Trained Under With USAF or Other Legitimate Affiliation: 0

Don't let this happen to you. Check out your Sensei's lineage and affiliation carefully.

Josh Reyer 04-15-2006 10:14 AM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
Quote:

Brian Cates wrote:
I fell for it. Hook, line, and sinker. Gee, this guy is a 5th Dan, he's affiliated directly with the 'Hombu Dojo', he's got 10 people in his class and a bigger training area. I compared that to Joel, who was 'only' a 2nd Dan, had only 2 or 3 students in the 2 times I observed his class, and was tucked away in the back of a bigger school teaching other arts.

BIG MISTAKE.

Ouch, man. Just, ouch. To me, the chance in a small, hands-on environment of just the teacher and two other students seems fantastic, but with your previous experiences of repeated cancellations I can understand why you wanted to go with the more stable-looking school.

Well, don't let it get you down! I wasted 10 years purely on my own laziness, but it's never too late to get back in the game.

crbateman 04-15-2006 02:32 PM

Re: Watch Out for Aikido 'Shihans'..........
 
What you did yesterday is all well and good, but what you do tomorrow is more important. Try to bury the cynicism, open your mind up, and put the hammer back down a wiser man. If you care enough to be pissed off, then you care enough to succeed.


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