Got pwned by boxer =-(
A friend of mine boxed for the army. I've been studying Aikido for about a month and so I asked him to friendly-spar for a couple of minutes to show him what I'd learned.
Basically, I got owned. I never came close to blending with his jabs. I finally had to tell him to slow his attacks down, so that I could demonstrate Ikkyo and Sankyo. His comments: 1. It's not possible to catch/blend with his punches. 2. He's going to throw a combination, so even if I try I'm probably going to get hit (this, too, he demonstrated with a gentle right to my floating rib when I tried for a sankyo). 3. He would never over-extend himself with a "clean attack" like we use in class. 4. All this has been settled with the Gracies in Brazilian Ju Jitsu. Back in the '70's they invited people from all different schools to come down and fight it out. What "came out in the wash" was these three positions, and most effective related styles: a. STANDING SEPARATE: boxing; kick-boxing b. GRAPPLING: Muy-Thai; Wrestling c. GROUND: Wrestling; Ju Jitsu In sum, I felt helpless and defenseless against his skills. |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
He boxed in the army, for an extended period of time...and you've spent 1 month doing cooperative training in a japanese martial art...and you are surprised at the outcome?
hmmmm.... Best, Ron |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Well we all know what the outcome would be even if he spent 20 years doing Aikido. The boxer would have owned him!
Boxers are better at boxing then Aikidoka. That's because they spend their time boxing, and we don't. Get that same buddie, and get yourself a padded club. Focus on striking his jabbing hand. Keep your distance, he will get frustrated that you have a reach advantage, and rush you, thus over extending. If he didn't have gloves on, I'll bet he'd grab your weapon hand, to stop you from hitting him, guess what happens when he grabs your wrist... Go at it again, and see how much more even you are. All the things he told you are correct. Aikido is a poor unarmed system, change the paradigm and the outcome will change. |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Had a great laugh with you post, thanks! Aikido for a month!!!!! Hahahaha! Is this really a serious post??
|
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
One example (if you believe the story) is Gozo Shioda taking on a boxer who had defeated one of his students. Shioda Sensei, on the other hand, seemed to have little trouble. The details give some idea of one way to handle such a situation. Best, Ron |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
The stratagy of conflict in Budo requires thought. Why would I try to out box a boxer or submit a wrestler? You're just learning so it's good you're finding out this lesson early. The Folks here are correct about learning to play to your strengths not your opponents.Aikido requires an entirely different approach to "fighting" and if you were one of my students with no prior Martial Arts experiance I might suggest you get a "black belt" in something else first if you want to learn "how to fight". Then come to Aikido. :)
Just relax and don't get frustrated and you'll experiance what I mean in due time. :) William Hazen |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
|
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
By the way, there are a lot of valuable lessons to take away from your experience, but none of them is, "boxing beats aikido". |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
|
Re: Got owned by boxer =-(
Hello all,
It's been a while, but there is a video somewhere on youtube (or there was) of a Russian aikidoka and a Russian Thai boxer sparring. The aikidoka was able to pull off a kotegaeshi from the boxer's jab. They were very well matched, but the aikidoka certainly held his own. It wasn't prearranged and they were certainly going all out with each other. It looked like a good match up honestly. Can most aikidoka do that? I doubt it. But to be fair the Thai boxer if memory serves was a champion in his weight so maybe a less skilled Thai boxer wouldn't have done as well? This weekend we were practicing Daito-ryu against jabs instead of lunges and shomenuchis and found if you do the kata correctly they work juast as well or even better if someone pulls back their hand. Good luck, keep training and don't be to eager to show off your skills because you don't have any yet. Part of budo training is to supress the ego, this should be a good lesson in that. ;) |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
You are actually totally wrong, Muay Thai includes a lot of standing clinchwork including throws from the clinch.
Quote:
|
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
And those knees :eek: Nope Aikido does not work very well in the clinch...:) William Hazen |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
|
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
|
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
|
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
:D |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
Back to the drawing board...... titter...... |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
AIkido principles works just well in the clinch. I would argue that the clinch is within the context of aikido. In fact done properly it demonstrates the concept of ikkyo quite well. Ikkyo in principle, not in form.
In principle ikkyo is about controlling the spine accessing it from the shoulder area. Clinching right and it is about irimi as well. Watch a good MMA guy in the ring closely. Especially when the are against the cage. They will pummel, underhook, control the shoulder to the spine, irimi and spin the opponent against the cage. Glad you mentioned the Clinch William. IT is the first thing I'd recommend that someone learn if they are serious about fighting. You can catch punches just fine....it may just not be with your hand! :) Clinching puts you in a range that negates his ability to punch and improves your ability to effectively use aiki principles. We have to be careful not to confuse the kata that we train with to teach princples with practical application. However just because many don't train the clinch does not mean that it cannot contain aiki principles. |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
I constantly enjoy watching the evolution of (and diversity of) opinion on this forum on this topic. "I got owned"------->you need to train a little more than a month ( I think that is pretty unanimous)--------->aikido doesn't work -----or----->aikido does work-----or------>aikido is a martial art-------or------>aikdio isn't a martial art. Seems that for every person who doesn't think it works or isn't a martial art (and why are you here if that's your opinion) there is someone who asserts it does and is. Seems to me if you take the principles (as Kevin pointed out) and train to see the martial context and you practice to the right attitude, then it will be effective. If you just want to "feel the blend" then it may not be effective. But at any rate, none of this comes after a month. May you have many years of happy training.
|
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Amen Kevin,
I love working from the clinch. For a short arse like me it is a great neautralizer if you can clinch well. As for aikido from the clinch, well I regularly use kote geishi, sokumen irimi nage, shomen irimi nage, ushiro nage and various hip throws. The application may look different from what most consider "aikido" but the principals are very aiki. |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
Boon |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
What does the word "martial" mean to you? It seems to me that O-sensei had a much broader (or at least different) view of the word than you do. I have read a quote by O-sensei saying "aikido is the study of the spirit". He continues "aikido provides the means to penetrate the reality of existence". It seems O-senseis definition of a "martial" art is somewhat broader than the idea that "martial" designates an art for fighting, for war. It seems O-sensei was of the opinion that the fighting to be done is with oneself and that self-victory is the ultimate goal of the fight. I maintain - if someone wants to practice an art that is 100% focussed on fighting, self-defense, dealing with a boxer etc. I do wonder if aikido is the right choice. Many regards Stefan Hultberg |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
Tony |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Hi Keith
your friend sounds like he's been boxing for awhile, so its no surprise with the difference in experience. As mentioned above, don't bring a punching match to a boxer. The subtleties of Aikido can be modified to be quite destructive. eg. direct Iriminage or arm break from shihonage. At the moment, you are learning where to put your hands and where to put your feet. In the dojo we accomodate each other to learn the correct movement. I understand that you would like to try out the techniques but for now you have to learn the basics. don't get me wrong, I am not condoning (not sure if this word is in the right context?) sparring Aikido vs MMA or boxing etc. I always believe its the martial artist and not the martial arts thats a factor. If if you want a quick martial art for grapelling or combat, then maybe you should look for another martial art :) don't have to feel helpless/defenseless with him... he's your friend right? :) just look at it as part of training. hope this helps all the best |
Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(
Quote:
I wonder if my mistake was at a conceptual level; in the "approach" as you say. Boxing is the art/sport of landing effective punches on an opponent. Aikido is not designed for sport-fighting. |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:01 AM. |
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.