Re: Biomechanics of simple throwing
You seem to be suggesting that basic physics would say you can't unbalance someone bigger than you who's attacking you???? I can assure you that's definitely not the case! In fact it's exactly why some of us find it interesting!
(Also I don't entirely get the point of the analogy, because if someone is an immovable concrete block, I can just walk away and I've won from my point of view. It's kind of a boring situation). |
Re: Biomechanics of simple throwing
going to throw in my unsolicited random thoughts.
first, the push model with arms straight out or bend. shoulders are the weakest points for force conduction, so locked you arms straight out, would put stress on the shoulders beyond its physical design. bending arms, especially, the elbows touching the body, would distribute the forces to the body and lessen the stress at the shoulder joints. it's a sound biomechanical/physics model. there is nothing wrong to go with both theory and applied. one approach is to trying things first then come up with theory to explain/model it. the other approach is to come up with the theory, then experiment to either prove or disprove or improve the theory. some folks like the experiment first; other folks, theory first. me, i liked to do both, at the same time. left hand for theory, right hand for applied. waving left hand and said watch this hand, then kick with the right foot. oh wait! there supposes to be a throw somewhere in here. hey, if you kick hard enough, the other person might throw up. :D last i checked, newtonian physics still applied on earth. i was reminded this morning in the shower, what goes up, must comes down. damn cold water! |
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So, learning first and foremost how to unbalance someone can seem rather backwards from that point of view. Learning how to not be a walking collection of imbalances can seemingly undo/invalidate many years/decades of the most well-intentioned and earnest training of most of us, because all someone has to do to point out our flaws is to come in contact with us. There really are dragons out there. |
Re: Biomechanics of simple throwing
To me learning not to get hurt (punched hard or arm broken or grabbed and dragged somewhere) seems like step one. No amount of training will make me immune to a single hard strike from someone 1.5 times my weight and a foot taller than me, so not getting hit seems like first priority.
Both unbalancing others and not letting them unbalance you seem like they should come lower down than that. Thanks for explaining, though, I do agree that many of us are often very unbalanced. |
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Wrestlers crouch is more akin to jigotai, not shizentai.From my experience Jigotai is not applicable on Aikido.Of course some Judo masters like Kenshiro Abbe did not advocate this posture.Jigotai may well have been stolen from Sumo?? Cheers, Joe. |
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Yes, thanks! That's perfect, just what I need.
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The converse of that conversation is this one... "Hi, welcome to aikido. You have terrible posture and you're one step above sloppily hurling your body in a general direction as your primary method of locomotion. For the next 5 years, we're going to concentrate on your problem areas, which seem to involve 'being'." |
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have any of you folks tip over cows before? |
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Here's another one - I tried to hit him myself through the screen and fell off my chair. Bust my side open - now, I'm in stitches.
Go on - try it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb8hkTCDCn0 |
Re: Biomechanics of simple throwing
Hey, I see a new moneymaker: "The Ki Hakama!" Janet? You in?
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this or this or this ... then you may be in the wrong forum discussing the wrong art. |
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It's not Aikido, but it sure is an example of biomechanics in action.
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But wondering ... discussing Hirosawa Shihan waza here would be a case of wrong forum wrong art too? |
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This is grim stuff.No wonder Aikido gets a bad name when this junk is put on the net. Absolute tosh.Cheers, Joe. |
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The reason I posted those Shioda videos is because he illustrated the point I was trying to make earlier, that there is an underlying quality to what he is doing that goes hidden in the techniques, but is visible (and unfortunately a bit too palpable to the uke in the last one) in those particular choice moments. Without that quality, he may as well just be flapping his arms around and people in an effort to reproduce it come up with stuff like, uh, empty force as some sort of misguided interpretation of what he was doing. There is a difference between an uke trying to get out of the way of what he knows to be truly an oncoming freight train vs. collusive movement designed to make a paper tiger look better. |
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How do you pull off shihonage on someone much shorter than you without a nice deep jigotai or switching to suwari waza? My wife and I have a 16" height difference so I get stuck with this a lot :) Cheers Paul |
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