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-   -   Saito Sensei & the no-hands throw (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9966)

DonMagee 07-01-2006 07:00 PM

Re: Saito Sensei & the no-hands throw
 
Well if you have a blade, I think I'll do what you tell me to do, or run. Or if I have enough space, pull my gun and shoot you. I'm not stupid enough to engage a person with a blade.

However if I am unarmed and I am forced to engage a person with a blade, I am going to attempt to move off the line just like I would any other type of grab or punch, and then control his knife hand. I'm then going to try to take him to the ground where I can leverage my body weight to control his hand. The final thing I would do is hope I dont bleed to death before I get to a hospital. Of course its important to remember that if he has a blade, he's not going to let me know he has it until he uses it. So chances are i'm going to have to do all of that AFTER getting stabbed.

mathewjgano 07-02-2006 06:07 PM

Re: Saito Sensei & the no-hands throw
 
Quote:

Don Magee wrote:
Of course its important to remember that if he has a blade, he's not going to let me know he has it until he uses it. So chances are i'm going to have to do all of that AFTER getting stabbed.

To me this implies that you're saying if you knew "he" had a blade, you'd be less likely to get stabbed. If this is the case, why assume he hasn't got a blade in the first place?

DonMagee 07-02-2006 08:56 PM

Re: Saito Sensei & the no-hands throw
 
Quote:

Matthew Gano wrote:
To me this implies that you're saying if you knew "he" had a blade, you'd be less likely to get stabbed. If this is the case, why assume he hasn't got a blade in the first place?

If thats the case, why leave the house at all.

I'm going to assume the majority of the people out in the world are not out to kill me. In fact, i'm going to assume that most people verbally abusing me are not looking to fight, but rather to feel better about themselves. I"m going to assue that if someone wants to rob me, they are not looking to kill me, but looking for my wallet. I'm going to assume that if someone wants to kill me, I wont even know it until he trys.

If you want to practice knife defense, give everyone in your dojo a marker and tell them sometime in the next year to try to stab you. Thats knife defense.

mathewjgano 07-03-2006 08:44 AM

Re: Saito Sensei & the no-hands throw
 
Quote:

If thats the case, why leave the house at all.
Well, because it would be unhealthy. I'm not saying assume everyone has a knife, I'm just saying don't assume any individual doesn't.

Quote:

I'm going to assume the majority of the people out in the world are not out to kill me. In fact, i'm going to assume that most people verbally abusing me are not looking to fight, but rather to feel better about themselves.
I think these are certainly reasonable, but I won't assume any given person is of the majority in these cases. I'm not saying to assume anything. I'm saying the opposite in fact: assume nothing. One doesn't have to make an assumption to make a choice in action.

Quote:

I"m going to assue that if someone wants to rob me, they are not looking to kill me, but looking for my wallet. I'm going to assume that if someone wants to kill me, I wont even know it until he trys.
The latter seems reasonable to me, the former doesn't. In my old apartment building, a man was killed over $5.00 as he entered through the security door at night. I'll try to assume nothing about anyone.

Quote:

If you want to practice knife defense, give everyone in your dojo a marker and tell them sometime in the next year to try to stab you. Thats knife defense.
Sure...it could be like the Pink Panther, where someone jumps out at you at any moment. Then again, I'm speaking about people who aren't your closest friends. For a situation where you see the guy coming, a soft tanto work nice.
I don't think one should assume they'll get cut and act accordingly.

mathewjgano 07-03-2006 09:53 AM

Re: Saito Sensei & the no-hands throw
 
Quote:

Don Magee wrote:
If thats the case, why leave the house at all.

Something tells me you weren't saying a person should assume an attacker (or potential attacker) is unarmed. If that's the case, my post was kinda pointless. I replied first thing after waking up (well, second thing: I started some tea before rushing over the PC); I was a bit groggy. It seemed to me you were saying if one knows another person (random strangers) is wielding a knife, they're less likely to be cut than someone who doesn't consider the possibility. Personally, if I'm dealing with a possible confrontation, I'll not assume anything, if I can help it. I'll treat the person as if they might be armed, but might not attack, if it's still a situation that is only a "potential" attack. Face to face, if I don't assume they're unarmed, it seems to me, my understanding of whether or not they're holding a knife becomes moot. I could also be wrong.
Bringing this back on topic, I think no-touch exercises could be good for practicing those subtle postural changes which can give one a slight advantage in a tough situation like this. If a stranger walks up to me and gets too close, I'll move off the line a little, almost as if they've just pushed me. I try to get the feeling of resonating with their movements and acting accordingly. Maybe it's all a mind-game, but it's a mind game which has kept me on my toes when I've "played" it. Perhaps the no-touch throw is this concept taken to the extream. My friends have often liked to break into a sudden game of slap boxing, which has usually started without any warning. Sometimes, by basing my movements on theirs, I've been able to keep from getting slapped; sometimes I haven't. Granted, as uke, we're committing to an inferior position...instead of entering and breaking balance and leverage of the slap, maybe I'd have gone flying as if from sayu nage, but it was the timing response which was the active principle there....I think.
Considering some of what I saw in that video of Watanabe, another possible benefit could be like running with weights...if I can attack in a weak way but still reach through it and strengthen those muscles, perhaps it's like a medicine ball for postural muscles. I do notice the better I am at keeping my balance while moving in contorted ways, the better I am able to counter some technique...relative to earlier abilities in my own case, at least. I know that, after having shiho nage done to me a lot at Kannagara Jinja (in which we basically force uke into a "bridge" to protect the head) I felt more and more stable and was more and more able to resist sloppy technique...not that I was very good at it, but I noticed an improvement. Maybe it's similar when Watanabe's uke "grabs" and turns over into a sort of standing bridge? I dunno...just trying to think how it might be beneficial...then again, I've been told by enough people that I think too much so...
Bye bye :D
Take care,
Matt


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