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-   -   Is America the new Rome? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13823)

Taliesin 01-18-2008 04:23 AM

Is America the new Rome?
 
British chieftain Calgacus addressing assembled warriors about Rome's insatiable appetite for conquest and plunder. The chieftain's sentiment can be contrasted to "peace given to the world" which was frequently inscribed on Roman medals. The last part solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant (they make a desert, and call it peace)

The more things change

James Davis 01-18-2008 10:23 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

David Chalk wrote: (Post 197513)
British chieftain Calgacus addressing assembled warriors about Rome's insatiable appetite for conquest and plunder. The chieftain's sentiment can be contrasted to "peace given to the world" which was frequently inscribed on Roman medals. The last part solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant (they make a desert, and call it peace)

The more things change

,the more they stay the same.

Don't worry, David. The corrupt senators who don't give a damn about the people and the peddlers of porn and violence are making sure we fall apart from the inside, just like Rome did. When that finally happens, the world will never have to worry about U.S. military occupation - or foreign aid - ever again. We're perfectly aware that our government is capable of horrible things; just ask the Branch Davidians who are still alive. We are also aware that corruption is everywhere, not just here. We certainly have our faults, but if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast.

Shall we accentuate the postive and treat each other with respect, and see what we can fix? Or should we just close another thread?

HL1978 01-18-2008 01:07 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
I assume you aren't basing this off the fact that "American gladiators" is back on the air?

I wonder what would happen to gas prices/shipping if the American navy stopped patrolling the seas.

James Davis 01-18-2008 04:03 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

Hunter Lonsberry wrote: (Post 197537)
I assume you aren't basing this off the fact that "American gladiators" is back on the air?

I wonder what would happen to gas prices/shipping if the American navy stopped patrolling the seas.

Crud! American Gladiators crossed my mind too, but I forgot to write it!:drool:

Guilty Spark 01-21-2008 09:20 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
I wish I knew more about Aikido so I could contribute on Aikido threads and not just cruise the off topic forum and catch the typical Love America Hate America stuff.

Charles 01-23-2008 05:05 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

David Chalk wrote: (Post 197513)
British chieftain Calgacus addressing assembled warriors about Rome's insatiable appetite for conquest and plunder. The chieftain's sentiment can be contrasted to "peace given to the world" which was frequently inscribed on Roman medals. The last part solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant (they make a desert, and call it peace)

The more things change

And the WWII German Army had "Gott Mit Uns", God is With Us, inscribed on the belt buckles. Though some thought it meant "God has Mittens".

Charles 01-23-2008 05:12 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

James Davis, Jr. wrote: (Post 197534)
,the more they stay the same.

Don't worry, David. The corrupt senators who don't give a damn about the people and the peddlers of porn and violence are making sure we fall apart from the inside, just like Rome did. When that finally happens, the world will never have to worry about U.S. military occupation - or foreign aid - ever again. We're perfectly aware that our government is capable of horrible things; just ask the Branch Davidians who are still alive. We are also aware that corruption is everywhere, not just here. We certainly have our faults, but if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast.

Shall we accentuate the postive and treat each other with respect, and see what we can fix? Or should we just close another thread?

What's up with the conflation of "porn" and "violence". The last time I checked porn was about depicting the basic human function of mutual pleasure. It's rather the exact opposite of violence.

James Davis 01-23-2008 10:17 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

Charles Scheid wrote: (Post 197795)
What's up with the conflation of "porn" and "violence". The last time I checked porn was about depicting the basic human function of mutual pleasure. It's rather the exact opposite of violence.

Would anybody else like to field this one?:straightf

Taliesin 01-28-2008 09:29 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
James

"if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast".

Contains two clear assumptions - one that it is a matter for the American people - something that is clearly put in doubt by your last two Presidential 'elections'

Secondly - the evidence from certain parts of Latin America doesn't support it either.

Still it's a touching belief

James Davis 01-28-2008 10:33 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
[quote=David Chalk;198098]James

Quote:

David Chalk wrote: (Post 198098)
"if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast".

Contains two clear assumptions - one that it is a matter for the American people - something that is clearly put in doubt by your last two Presidential 'elections'

If enough American citizens were really interested in not helping the world any more, you can bet there would be a politician to jump on that bandwagon and ride it into office.
Quote:

David Chalk wrote: (Post 198098)
Secondly - the evidence from certain parts of Latin America doesn't support it either.

Don't keep us in suspense, David. Tell us what you're referring to.
Quote:

David Chalk wrote: (Post 198098)
Still it's a touching belief

Touched, were you?

Guilty Spark 01-28-2008 12:46 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Something I recently found out and found interesting and perhaps a little ironic.

Only two countries out of 193(?) choose not to sign a ban on "child soldiers". The US and Somalia. If need be, the US wanted the capability of sending persons younger than 18 to war.

Sgt. 1st Class "Nate" Chapman was the first US soldier killed in Afghanistan in the war on terror and he was killed by a child soldier.

Just found it interestng and perhaps indicative of a society geared towards war.

I believe however the US does not send persons younger than 18 to war. In Canada we will train 16 and 17 year olds but someone needs to be 18 before we can deploy them.

Quote:

James Davis, Jr. wrote: (Post 198106)

Touched, were you?

Uncalled for and the reasons why threads get locked.

James Davis 01-28-2008 03:50 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

Grant Wagar wrote: (Post 198115)
Uncalled for and the reasons why threads get locked.

I was being cheeky, not insulting.

I would also like to know why my belief was described as "touching". If it's false, tell me why. If someone thinks that I sound naive, then say so and explain why I'm so wrong. There's no need for anyone to be cryptic when we could just speak plainly.

Guilty Spark 01-28-2008 05:04 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

James Davis, Jr. wrote: (Post 198131)
I was being cheeky, not insulting.

I would also like to know why my belief was described as "touching". If it's false, tell me why. If someone thinks that I sound naive, then say so and explain why I'm so wrong. There's no need for anyone to be cryptic when we could just speak plainly.

Fair enough James I thought you were going somewhere else with it.

Aikiweb is probably thee worst message forum I've been on for seeing people making jabs at each other while trying to look open minded and friendly. I agree people should just peak plainly and get their point across.

With regard to "porn" and "violence", Charles, it's become almost cliche to quote Dave Grossmass's 'On Killing'. Be that as it may pick it up and give it a read.

Porn may have elements of mutual pleasure but it's just as much about one individual (or several) dominating another individual (or several). The "money shot" is simular to fighting with someone and defeating/killing them.

Michael Varin 01-31-2008 03:21 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

James Davis, Jr. wrote:
The corrupt senators who don't give a damn about the people and the peddlers of porn and violence are making sure we fall apart from the inside, just like Rome did. When that finally happens, the world will never have to worry about U.S. military occupation - or foreign aid - ever again.

That's one way of looking at it. Or we can stop the military occupations and foreign aid, so we don't fall apart from the inside.

I certainly believe that morality is important, but before I point the finger at action and pornographic movies, I would stop the debasement of our money and the perversion of our laws.

Quote:

James Davis, Jr. wrote:
We certainly have our faults, but if we chose to be isolationists again the world would get real crappy real fast.

Why? Most people use "isolationist" as a dirty word for "non-interventionist." There's a big difference.

Quote:

Grant Wagar wrote:
Porn may have elements of mutual pleasure but it's just as much about one individual (or several) dominating another individual (or several). The "money shot" is simular to fighting with someone and defeating/killing them.

Apparently, some people spend way to much time analyzing porn.

dps 01-31-2008 06:54 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Is America the New Rome?
Quote:

David Chalk wrote: (Post 197513)
British chieftain Calgacus addressing assembled warriors about Rome's insatiable appetite for conquest and plunder. The chieftain's sentiment can be contrasted to "peace given to the world" which was frequently inscribed on Roman medals. The last part solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant (they make a desert, and call it peace)

The more things change

Sounds like sour grapes.

Rule, Britannia! rule the waves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire

"The British Empire was the largest empire in history and for a time was the foremost global power. It was a product of the European age of discovery, which began with the maritime explorations of the 15th century, that sparked the era of the European colonial empires.
By 1921, the British Empire held sway over a population of about 458 million people, approximately one-quarter of the world's population.[1] It covered about 36.6 million kmē (14.2 million square miles),[2] about a quarter of Earth's total land area. As a result, its legacy is widespread, in legal and governmental systems, economic practice, militarily, educational systems, sports, and in the global spread of the English language. At the peak of its power, it was often said that "the sun never sets on the British Empire" because its span across the globe ensured that the sun was always shining on at least one of its numerous colonies or subject nations.[3]
During the five decades following World War II, most of the territories of the Empire became independent. Many went on to join the Commonwealth of Nations, a free association of independent states."

David

Taliesin 01-31-2008 07:35 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
David

Not really Sour Grapes because as you've pointed out - we were honest about conquest, we were sucessful, in comparative terms we stole far more than the USA has managed (perhaps because we thought long term), we left behind a legacy of relatively civilised countries (including your northern neigbour)

I think you'll find that it is when we left the problems started (Uganda, Sri Lanka, India & Pakistan, USA etc)

it's a bit different today - as it's really hard to think of countries that have truly benefitted from purely American intervention and equally difficult to avoid finding countries that have not suffered from it, most notably in Latin America & of course Iraq.

But the question is whether the United States is creating chaos and installing puppets and calling it 'Democracy or peace'. - I wasn't suggesting that Monty Python would be capable of doing a "What have the Americans done for us' sketch

James Davis 01-31-2008 10:58 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 198292)
That's one way of looking at it. Or we can stop the military occupations and foreign aid, so we don't fall apart from the inside.

Capital idea.:)
Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 198292)
I certainly believe that morality is important, but before I point the finger at action and pornographic movies, I would stop the debasement of our money and the perversion of our laws.

That's cool.

I don't have a problem with action movies. The violence is what it getting worse. I don't mind so much watching a movie with a fistfight or a military skirmish. In these cases, violence and even gore help to tell the story. It's when violence and gore are the plot that movies start to stink.

Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 198292)
Why? Most people use "isolationist" as a dirty word for "non-interventionist." There's a big difference.

While being non-interventionist holds some appeal, one problem is that the world is full of never-do-wells lying in wait for the U.S. to back off so that the Kuwaits of the world can be invaded. Do we sit back and watch it all fall apart? Do we do nothing, or something? Whatever we do, there'll be people that hate us, and there'll be people risking their lives to sneak across our borders into the U.S.

Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 198292)
Apparently, some people spend way to much time analyzing porn.

Porn, like violence, becomes more hard core as the people get more desensitized. Children Of the Corn isn't scary enough anymore, so the blood flows more freely now. 1940's era pinups have given way to what we have today. One sad thing about both of these situations is that we can't even really opt out. If you choose not to partake in pornography, you'll get pop-up ads horning their way onto your monitor. Even now, they're hard at work trying to find a way around whatever parental controls we utilize so that they can show their unwanted product to our children. Even if I choose not to watch the Saw or Hostel movies, they'll put on an advertisement for them during a 7 o'clock trivia game show in an attempt to get the images into my daughter's head.

Guilty Spark 01-31-2008 12:13 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 198292)

Apparently, some people spend way to much time analyzing porn.

Quote:

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is an internationally recognized scholar, author, soldier, and speaker who is one of the world's foremost experts in the field of human aggression and the roots of violence and violent crime.

Col. Grossman is a West Point psychology professor, Professor of Military Science, and an Army Ranger who has combined his experiences to become the founder of a new field of scientific endeavor, which has been termed “killology.” In this new field Col. Grossman has made revolutionary new contributions to our understanding of killing in war, the psychological costs of war, the root causes of the current "virus" of violent crime that is raging around the world, and the process of healing the victims of violence, in war and peace.

He is the author of On Killing, which was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize; has been translated into Japanese, Korean, and German; is on the US Marine Corps’ recommended reading list; and is required reading at the FBI academy and numerous other academies and colleges.
http://www.killology.com/bio.htm

Sounds like it wasn't time wasted though.

Tom Fish 02-06-2008 02:02 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Tell us all that's wrong with America. Tell us how we don't get anything right. Then watch your parliment on TV and explain why your way is so much better.

Taliesin 02-07-2008 03:46 AM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Our Parliament is NO BETTER - although we are not claiming to be the saviours of the world, the world's policeman, etc

Tom Fish 02-07-2008 02:24 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
So damn us for doing something and we'll damn you for doing nothing.

Mark Freeman 02-07-2008 05:05 PM

Re: Is America the new Rome?
 
Quote:

David Chalk wrote: (Post 198298)
I wasn't suggesting that Monty Python would be capable of doing a "What have the Americans done for us' sketch

I couldn't resist this one:)

Jazz!! a uniquely American artform that has enriched global human culture no end.

Regards

Mark


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