Ki does not exist ! (Neither do I !)
But it's the only thing there is !
I've been reading here for a while and I just felt like adding my part to these reflections on Ki. I believe there is no point trying to figure out the nature of Ki, trying to prove its existence scientificaly, or trying to understand its substance, simply because Ki does not exist ! Actually, our very body doesn't exist either, the blade of my opponent does not exist and my opponent is made of emptyness as well ! "Except for blending with the void, There is no way to understand The Way of Aiki." - Morihei Ueshiba The only thing there is in this world is my attention and the picture it is focusing on, or in other words, the object of my awareness. The rest is only a mental picture that we commonly keep as an agreement. The mind creates the world. Or as osensei stated : "A mind of discord, thinking of the existence of an enemy is no more consistent with the will of the kami." "He who has gained the secret of Aikido has the universe in himself and can say, "I am the universe." "I am one with the universe and I am nothing else." Of course this perception of thing may seem too esoteric or not practical for daily life, but since it remains the basics of things, I simply wish to safe a lot of pointless research and thinking on the topic. It's a little bit like these quantum physicists trying to observe an atom and realizing there is scientificaly nothing to observe ! |
It's basically like saying between absolute truth and relative truth. I have yet to find the absolute truth, but I live with relative truth every single day.
The human knowledge of the physical and relative world is still so miniscule compared to the universe. It can't even be compared as a drop of water in the vast ocean that is the universe. It is arrogant to say that humans know everything that there is to know. It is arrogant for humans to say that the system of science that was created and developed by humans is enough to explain everything that there is in the universe. Humans have yet to find even the tip of the iceberg. |
Not to be making light of your serious comments, friends, but I can't help thinking of these lines from the Matrix, and when I think of them, I can't help smiling:
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I do like those lines... it's spiritual... in a techno sense.
And you know what, sub-consciously, that maybe what made me think about absolute and relative truth. |
What is the void?
Fact is ... none of us exists with a few choice keys, and a quick flash or the "delete" key.
What is the void? Is it that place in our mind that contains the fears, the anger, the unknown factors that distract us from seeing clearly, understanding who we are or why we are here, what we can or can not do in our human form we must live in while we think our little thoughts, live our little lives that are oh so short? Or is it like the comment I heard that Americans don't understand how oh can be totally different that oh-oh, or oh-oh-oh? Embrace the void, eh? Internal note to teach you about yourself, or is it a manifest form or exterior phenonmenon? No Ki? I do not Exist? Reminds me of my old Sicilian grandmother? Smack up side the head and '"what's sa matta with you!" Back to reality with a little physical stimulation. Maybe Ki, or others don't exist, but that is just because we aren't there to smack you up side the head. Doesn't mean it could exist somewhere else. Maybe it is time to turn off the computer and go outside to see if you can fill that void with some input. Input, input, input! Not everything you picture in your mind exists, but if you can picture it then it must have some basis in the real world ... what is the reality verses the idea? In finding the reality, then you will find if it exists in the real world. Me? I am just dots on a computer screen. I am not real .... yet. I comma you house and smacka you head to wake-a you up ... botch-a-ga-loup! |
IMHO, Ki is no-thing in particular. Ki just is.
If you say Ki exist, you will be hit. If you say Ki does not exist, you will be hit. Who is the "I" that experiences the Ki as existing or non-existing? Sometimes, the only way to find the answer is to drop the question and accept what is. Train. When you expereinece it you know. When you don't, no words can explain or verify it. Until again, Lynn |
I believe!
Personaly, I believe in the reality of :ki: Ki. But then again, I beleive in magic, Big Foot, UFOs and Santa Claus.
Though my belief in some of these things are not related to any direct experience, I have experienced Ki. I don't want Ki to be explained by reductionist science, for I think its an emergent property of a whole system that unites body, heart, mind, and who knows what else. Its not something to explained, categorized, or conjectured about, it is something to be experienced. |
Re: I believe!
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Thank you all for the feedback !
I mainly agree with Lynn Seiser, or again with the Famous (in Japan) Zen monk Takuan Soho : "The mind must not stop at anything, if it stops, it falls." If you point your attention to a particular idea, you become blind for all the others. So Ki is, it is the projection of my intention, my will, through the picture of my body. Ki isn't, there's no way of catching it and putting it in a bottle to observe it like a snail (or atoms !). Neither of these answers are right or wrong. And for those who think some pain would teach me reality, well, I had the chance to oberve and old Hindu monk to get a dental surgery, without any anaesthetic ! And just to apply that to the average of people, I'm sure any of you has experienced going out in the winter without proper clothing and not feeling cold, and in the other hand waking up in the morning and feeling frozen, even though the temperature is still high. All is in the position of your attention. Or once again, not feeling the pain when the mind is occupied at something else, and suffering like hell for a simple cut that keeps all our attention. It's all in "where" is the attention, and it can go as far as not feeling pain at all, but rather observing it (I've done it). Conclusion : yes, there is no point trying to confine Ki in a "reductionnist" science, but rather one must accept the idea and use it. There is nothing, all is here. (sounds dramatic enough ?!!) |
Truth in simplicity
The fact that ki does not exist, and neither do you ... well ... that statement has more truth in it than humor.
Every living thing creates some type of energy in its fullfillment of being alive. Call it ki, or call it life, or call it what you will, when life ends, the energy of that life ends and the bits and pieces that make up that life are redistributed, recycled as it were. The basis description of life, and that of death are to the very heart of "ki does not exist and neither do I." Maybe my view is practical rather than the spiritual aspect of this forum, but doesn't the physical action of life fall within more physical parameters of measurement, while ki is our brain fog which has not cleared enough for us to apply the term in a more scientific manner? No Ki, eh? There is only one way you can not have any ki ... you be dead. Dead is the only condition where life has stopped. Or is it like the "Princess Bride" where Miracle Max says Wesley is "mostly dead" not all dead? Degrees of measurement, variations of thespiritual, getting caught up in deep scholarly discussions are fun, but only when you are mostly alive, with some ki? Not mostly dead. |
Yes, but when you die....do you really die?
Remember, energy is neither created or destroyed....it is transferred! |
Kevin Leavitt?
Hello Kevin.
Do you have a brother or cousin or family member named Jason with same last name? If so, is he a copper? Also, if so, have him write to me, either here or email or Private message me. I used to work with em. |
The cool thing is that most everybody is correct . . . but not necessarily for the correct reasons. Go figure.
Ki is real, but it does not exist. Computers exist, but they are not real. The only truth is Universal, and simple. Nature is real. It is the indisputable manifestation of whatever "Higher Power" created us. It is our foundation. We cannot exist without it, and we are both spiritually and physically borne of it. Plastic exists, but it was created by a human idea, a tampering or alteration of elements from their natural state. Things that come from the human mind are dreamworks, existing, but having no necessary place in Nature. They provide no benefit, but more often offer some destructive impact to Nature. Logic and Spirit work together for us when we exercise our inherent role as Caretakers of the Earth, but when one outweighs the other, there can be severe discord. It's interesting because Ki exists until we try to find it. If you've ever done any dowsing, or are familiar with the "gut feeling" or intuition, then you may understand how those feelings--Ki impressions--can be clouded with logic, which comes in the form of second-guessing ourselves. (I knew I should have stuck with my original answer on that test . . .!) |
Welcome to the real World , Neo :cool: .
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P.S. for all you Matrix freaks - did you realise that the first film is based (loosely!) on the old testament, and this next one is based on the new testemant.
(re; Neo, Zion etc) |
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Nature itsn't a perfect balance, but a moving system, that pulsates moving through time. Things will change by itself. If you mean that we try and keep THAT stable, it can't happen. It has it's own will, we're just a part of it, good or bad. Quote:
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This doesn't mean you wrong and I'm right, just using your part of thread to state my meaning. /Bussho |
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[quote] Everthing we do and make are natural.[quote]Sorry; it doesn't quite work that way. Quote:
OF COURSE IT DOES! Quote:
Splitting atoms, creating things that don't readily absorb back into Nature, creating things that enable the perpetuation of genetically weak species--all unnatural. In fact, just by creating most of the crap we need in society we kill Nature. Are you calling that beneficial? If so, I call that self-centered (societally). Quote:
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Anyway, the whole superbeing thing is your statement; I didn't bring up anything about personifying deities. Quote:
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We can discuss the exsistense of the univers, but you stated that there is only a Universal truth, which in my book means that there is only one truth that covers all. And that is an assumption. Quote:
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Nice dicussing with you! /Bussho |
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If you are not one of these people, then I have no concern at all with the trade of info. Quote:
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Jeff, quick question for you from a paid up member of the pop-culture brainwashed masses (who actively supports and feels technology can do good as well as bad), how would you go about deciding who lives and dies?
Now, I'm quite willing to be proved merely ignorent of the truth, never having lived "with the land" or experienced being natures caretaker first-hand - but don't most of the groups you describe not only need a large area of land to survive, but also have an incredibly short life-span as a norm? Doesn't most of the world's current population only survive through advances in technology? I'm afraid I couldn't bring myself to declare genocide on the human race with a good "back to nature" ethos, glad someone out there has the moral rectitude for it... Back on topic, disagree with you about Ki (but from previous threads I know you're closer to the norm than I am). I don't believe ki is either external or particularly spiritual, just efficient use of your bodies own resources. |
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Why would deciding who lives or dies rest on my head? It's up to Nature, and many elements apply i.e., how distant we are from being able to survive in a pure environment in the first place, how much our senses have degraded, and plain survival of the fittest. The thing is that people don't usually like the answer, because many are afraid of death. Our society is committed to fighting death instead of embracing it as part of life. We have synthetics, prosthetics, and life-lengthening methods that make us live much longer than may have been intended. It's hard to say what the "normal" life-span should be because some cultures lived only into their early forties, yet others lived into their eighties. Either way, living in harmony with the earth is still the only way to level whether we should live or die. It's obvious we are overpopulated as it is. Imagine how it would be if thousands of people DIDN'T die every day. Our society says something like that is sad, and though it may be, in the great scheme it's just continuity. Quote:
Our technology affords us the opportunity to become lethargic, unaware, and caters to weak genetics. It's a tough truth. Then there is the whole spiritual aspect. When we separate from nature, we do so by living IN the technology, surrounding ourselves with false, controlled atmospheres--cars, houses, televisions, etc.--things that "protect" us from the elements and the reality of Nature. When we disconnect from Nature, our spirits also suffer, because the bond between all life is in Nature. It's like being in a boat on a lake. If we don't get wet, we lose some of the most intimate connection with life. Quote:
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Jeff, ok, so I was jabbing, ya caught me... I think the major problem I have with your stance is that, to me, developing tools and techniques is as natural for us as lil ol wolf eating mr bunny. Train your kid in survival skills? Great idea for a hobby, train the same kid in how to develop technology that will work with nature/improve life, much better use of time (of course, being as I am one of nature's survival failures I may be biased :) )
As for Ki, I'll agree the term exists in that there's room for debate on the nature of a phenomena that is oft referred to, sometimes (erroneously?) experienced that has been identified in aikido by the name "ki". |
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I mean, I am really sorry, I am not being crass when I say that that statement sounds simplistic and way understudied. In fact, it phenomenally blows my mind that when someone says, "Nature good, protect Nature; protect species," that there are others who actually say, "nuh uh." There is no such thing as technology that supports Nature. There never will be. I mean really think about it. Even bicycles. People say, "ride bicycles because they don't pollute nature." That's wonderful, but consider what it takes to make a bicycle. Acres of land stripped. Infrastructure built for factory. Pavement installed for employee parking. Electricity, fuel, smoke stacks . . . blah blah and etc. Tools, yes. Bone, stick, stone--what more do you need than that? And who is anyone to decide that the grandchildren shouldn't have the option? It's everyone's birthright to live in Nature. It's our own death if we choose not to. Quote:
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Hi
Just wanted to say that I'll be off line the next week or so. My wife just went into labor. We have to wait until mornign before we'll go to the hospitle. I dont want us to stop this discussion, just dont want you to think I "ran away". But I'll tell you so much that I've been educated into both western medicine and easter, not as a doctor but a foot specilist and Shiatsu massage. So I do know a bit about ki. But I havn't studied philosophy in university. But i've readmore than one book. But I'll try and get back to you later... /Bussho |
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