Aiki no Rentai
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Aiki no Rentai: The Conditioned Body of Yukiyoshi Sagawa, Part 1 - Keisetsu Yoshimaru and "Aikido no Ogi" Best, Chris |
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Nice Chris. There was something like this posted on a french (I think it was french!) site and I got it through google translate. It was readable... Is this some of the same stuff? If so, I was wondering a few weeks ago if you'd ever go back to any of that.
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I have the article in Japanese too, maybe someday... Best, Chris |
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クリースさん、
その論文をここに載せてくれる?^^ |
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Great post Chris
Sorry for being dim, but what is Henko Ashi? Regards Chris |
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Dear Chris
When I read this part of the article... Quote:
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Carl |
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Best, Chris |
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Saito used to complain about how "some people" held their hands, IIRC. The background image on www.aikidosangenkai.org is actually a photo of a kimono fabric with....an Asagao pattern. :) Best, Chris |
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the "i" shown up on my computer as "l" which my old going-blind eyes thought the title of the article is "Aiki no Rental". so i thought what sort of artile be in Aiki no Rental. some sort of eviction Aiki? or maybe some sort of landlord slum aiki. definitely new. :)
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Best, Chris |
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Best, Chris |
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Thanks for translating, Chris.
It's what the aiki men of yore weren't saying, that I'd love to read, though. :) Their obfuscation of what they were doing with the rest of their body... the sin of omission and the distraction methods of a prestidigitator when they say... "watch my hands... at no time do they leave my wrists!" |
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Thanks for the link Chris! My mailbox is full so and too lazy to delete messages so Ill just thank you here :).
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Greg |
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Part of it is that the folks in Sagawa Dojo are pretty closemouthed (the person who made that quote said that himself), and part of it is that the language and terminology don't seem that well developed in many cases. One of the things that interested me about that first quote is the clear division (but interedependance) between IP (ie "Martial power") and Aiki that was made. Also that, as in the Sagawa quotes, the training is focused on the creation of a certain kind of body. Best, Chris |
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Yes, the hints were there - the references to conditioning the body, "strengthening" the hips and legs, and the mention of "Asagao." No details of what these things really mean, nor their significance, role and purpose, and yet they were at least stated.
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What I thought was interesting was the difference: Keeping the hands straight vs. the "slight rotation". Am I right in thinking that while Takeda and Osensei emphasised the "te-no-kaeshi", Sagawa changed it to keeping the hands straight? I notice Akuzawa Sensei of the Aunkai also keeps the hands straight. I haven't found any videos of other IP/Aiki exponents doing the exercise to compare, but it seems that even te sabaki can be viewed as "waza". In other words, could stripping it down be a way of going for "raw" kokyu-ryoku outside of the method of deployment? NB: Suwari Kokyu-Ho is one of only two "techniques" that Osensei didn't seem to mind having written down in a list of rules as something that should be done in daily practice. Carl |
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I don't know about Ark - but I'll try and remember to ask Rob about it when I see him next month. Best, Chris |
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Carl |
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Best, Chris |
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Turning the hands up or down is totally unnecessary. In fact were we to consider "turning the hands thereare far more important things to be doing!!. This type of turning you are talking about adds nothing to what you are doing internally and externally to create the technique. There are reasons for straight hands -partly having to do within a training model to induce intent and then yin/yang and otherwise mostly having to do with maintaining an unattached mind without any hand motion....yet. The intent is in your whole body, creating a neutral point on-contact that becomes the support from dantian. From the there, all sort of interesting things occur; some of which is internal some of which is external. Hence IP/aiki. You really cannot do effective aiki without IP. It's all just mimiced motion that can produce okay waza, but it is far from being..."it." More Taiji classics along the same line: Not the weight of a feather can be added, nor a fly can alight that does not induce rotation. This gives opportunity for yin and yang. This is the comprehension of energy. Another great admonition is from a taiji grand master. All this talk of aiki, where is yin? Where is yang? How then is there aiki? You cannot retend Dantian. You will be found out. So, rotation alone simply will not work, and it is hardly the point. Yin yang is the point. Manifesting yin and yang is where you separate the high level people from ...well....everybody else! Utilizing yin and yang is everything. This is what Ueshiba said as well. All the models and all the waza aren't much without yin and yang. I continue to demonstrate arm movements against a push or grab, that do nothing. Then, I do the exact, same, move and uke is off balance. Then I do it again without yin/yang...nothing...then turn on yin and yang...off balance they go. I just had a Shihan under a Tohei lineage going nuts trying to figure it out. "You did the same thing!! What made the difference?" So I quoted Ueshiba. "Why can you not do these things? Simple. You do not understand Yin and yang!" Dan |
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Aiki-age is a hand turning waza for those who don't know deeper things. Aiki-age is everything for those who do know deeper things. I would say the same about the original purpose of Kokyu-ho, but I just haven't met anyone in the art who knows the deeper teaching of kokyu-ho or who can't simply be stopped. I keep hearing about it, I just haven't seen or felt it. Jamming or stopping people "who do get it" can be quite a difficult task. I stand people back up on their feet from seiza with kokyu ho, but I am not really using my arms to do it. You can copy it with a big muscle movement, but such is the way of people trying to mimic. Quote:
Then again what is ...aiki age that could be changed? What creates aiki-age cannot truly be changed, while the external movement can be altered all over the place to look like many things. Dan |
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Thanks for the information Dan
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Carl |
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Carl
No time for a lengthy post...got to go train all day. Yes, Asagao is not a simple hand movement thing, it is a body principle involving dantian, elbow power and fure Aiki. Though I imagine just about everyone learned it and sees it ads a hand movement!! ;) As for the Japanese way of teaching....Sometimes it's fascinating to see profound things being reduced to an obvious movements and people think what they see is all there is to it. I have no opinion on why they do what they do. My choice is to explain them and actually teach people to do these things. Dan |
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"Aiki no Rentai: The Conditioned Body of Yukiyoshi Sagawa" - in French, thanks to Budo Shugyosha. The original English version is here.
Best, Chris |
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