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-   -   I don't know (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20762)

robin_jet_alt 01-26-2012 05:21 AM

I don't know
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

Mark Freeman 01-26-2012 05:42 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 301650)
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

Hi Robin,

interesting start to a thread (I don't think it will hit the numbers that the undying "Aikido does not work etc" thread has achieved;) ).

However, what you declare is "beginners mind" - we would all benefit from aspiring to this state.

So much here is written from the point of 'knowing' (or claiming to know).

What is it though, that you do not know? What is it that you do not understand? And how do you know that you don't know? Just a few curious questions. :)

enjoy your training,

regards,

Mark (who sometimes has more questions than answers)

Mary Eastland 01-26-2012 07:02 AM

Re: I don't know
 
I know a little and have a lot to learn. I love being in the question.

lbb 01-26-2012 07:49 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Robin, I wish you were here so you could come by the dojo and we could not-know and not-understand together, and then I could take you out to the People's Pint for one (or more) of our fine local beers. Truly, I like the way you think.

Good training to ya.

Mark Mueller 01-26-2012 08:14 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Reminds me of something Saotome Sensei says....."I know one thing, I know nothing".

David Orange 01-26-2012 09:44 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Mark Mueller wrote: (Post 301665)
Reminds me of something Saotome Sensei says....."I know one thing, I know nothing".

Peter Ralston (Principles of Effortless Power) says that not knowing is where the most important things happen.

I'll try to find the exact quote. He says i repeatedly, I believe (but I don't know...).

David

grondahl 01-26-2012 10:14 AM

Re: I don't know
 
How very Socrates of you.

Mark Uttech 01-26-2012 10:38 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Beginner's Mind is the best thing to keep. In time you will be surprised how hard it is to keep!

DonMagee 01-26-2012 03:23 PM

Re: I don't know
 
I feel the opposite problem. I know exactly what I'm trying to do, I just can't do it :-)

They say "No, you have to do it like this"

I say "I know! I'm trying!"

I enjoy the struggle.

mathewjgano 01-26-2012 03:30 PM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 301650)
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

evileyes I bet I don't know more than you do!:p :D
Gambatte!
Take care,
Matt

gates 01-26-2012 08:37 PM

Re: I don't know
 
Getting it. Got it. Lost it. Repeat.

Chasing rainbows.
A dog catching it's tail.
Seeing deeper and deeper into outer space with bigger and better telescopes.
It runs away from us BECAUSE we are chasing it.

As Don said, enjoy the struggle, the destination is always running away from us anyway. I feel a little sorry for those who think, "know" they have got there. Must be boring with nowhere to go !

David Orange 01-26-2012 09:13 PM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Peter Gröndahl wrote: (Post 301677)
How very Socrates of you.

The body is the sock of ki.

That much, I do know.

philipsmith 01-27-2012 01:16 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 301650)
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know. -- Socrates

The more you know, the less you understand. -- Lao-Tse

The more you learn, the more you know. The more you know, the more you forget. The more you forget, the less you know. So why bother to learn? -- George Bernard Shaw

or definitively Red Hot Chilli Peppers in Snow (hey oh)

robin_jet_alt 01-27-2012 01:18 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Mark Freeman wrote: (Post 301652)
Hi Robin,

interesting start to a thread (I don't think it will hit the numbers that the undying "Aikido does not work etc" thread has achieved;) ).

However, what you declare is "beginners mind" - we would all benefit from aspiring to this state.

So much here is written from the point of 'knowing' (or claiming to know).

What is it though, that you do not know? What is it that you do not understand? And how do you know that you don't know? Just a few curious questions. :)

enjoy your training,

regards,

Mark (who sometimes has more questions than answers)

Good questions. I don't know about IS for example. I've never met Dan etc. and I have no way to judge its value. Of course, that is just an example, and there are plenty of other things that I don't know or understand. I'm sure I don't know what half of them are yet.

The post was in response to a lot of the discourse in which many people claim that their way is best or that others don't understand. I thought I should just come out with it and say that, "no, I don't understand". There is nothing wrong with that, but I am enjoying my training and hopefully getting something out of it.

That pint sounds good, Mary. If I am ever up your way, let's get one.

Mark Freeman 01-27-2012 07:00 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

David Orange wrote: (Post 301746)
The body is the sock of ki.
That much, I do know.

David, you and your metaphors, cats, trees, socks, I don't know;)

What sort of sock? ankle? knee high? wool, cotton, nylon? hand knitted, machine made? Does this mean that ki is a foot? or is ki afoot? What happens if you put the sock through the wash too many times? Can the ki leak out and stain things?

Sockofki - a little known russian aikidoka?:)

regards,

Mark
p.s. This much I know - I don't take things seriously enough:D

phitruong 01-27-2012 07:12 AM

Re: I don't know
 
i don't know what i don't know. what i know none of which nonsense knowledge knows not never-mind no how. :)

Jonathan 01-27-2012 09:32 AM

Re: I don't know
 
It seems to me that if, after, say, twenty years of training or so, you are still saying "I don't know anything" you are either very stupid or guilty of false modesty.

Shadowfax 01-27-2012 02:27 PM

Re: I don't know
 
"He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him.
He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise - follow him."
~attributed to various authors...

Rob Watson 01-27-2012 02:45 PM

Re: I don't know
 
Follow your nose ... it always knows!
Attributed to some knowitall Toucan

Keith Larman 01-27-2012 03:55 PM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Jonathan Hay wrote: (Post 301776)
It seems to me that if, after, say, twenty years of training or so, you are still saying "I don't know anything" you are either very stupid or guilty of false modesty.

Or maybe you just need to find a better place to train...

George S. Ledyard 01-27-2012 04:26 PM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 301650)
I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it... I don't know... I don't understand... I'm looking forward to training on Saturday morning. That is all.

My favorite quote from Ushiro Kenji Sensei in his latest book
Quote:

"What you know is the enemy of learning."

David Orange 01-27-2012 04:35 PM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Mark Freeman wrote: (Post 301765)
David, you and your metaphors, cats, trees, socks, I don't know;)

Gotta prove I'm a writer somehow...:D

Quote:

Mark Freeman wrote: (Post 301765)
What sort of sock? ankle? knee high? wool, cotton, nylon? hand knitted, machine made? Does this mean that ki is a foot? or is ki afoot? What happens if you put the sock through the wash too many times? Can the ki leak out and stain things?

It's a body sock.

Peace.

David

(actually, look for my upcoming thread on facial expression and development of IS/Aiki! I explain the sock idea completely in that!)

Stephen Fasen 01-28-2012 10:43 PM

Re: I don't know
 
1st dan: I don't know, but I know I can know
2nd dan: I don't know, but I know I know more than you don't know.
3rd dan: I don't know why you don't know what I know.
4th dan: I don't know if I am supposed to know as much as I don't know.
5th dan: I don't know if I ever will know.
6th dan: I don't know, but I hope you don't know I don't know.
7th dan: I don't know that I will never know what I don't know.
8th dan: I don't know I don't know, but I don't know if that is important.
9th dan: I don't know if I ever knew that what I don't know is to be known.
Dead

robin_jet_alt 01-29-2012 12:36 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

Stephen Fasen wrote: (Post 301910)
1st dan: I don't know, but I know I can know
2nd dan: I don't know, but I know I know more than you don't know.
3rd dan: I don't know why you don't know what I know.
4th dan: I don't know if I am supposed to know as much as I don't know.
5th dan: I don't know if I ever will know.
6th dan: I don't know, but I hope you don't know I don't know.
7th dan: I don't know that I will never know what I don't know.
8th dan: I don't know I don't know, but I don't know if that is important.
9th dan: I don't know if I ever knew that what I don't know is to be known.
Dead

But how do you know that?

Mark Freeman 01-29-2012 06:31 AM

Re: I don't know
 
Quote:

David Orange wrote: (Post 301826)
(actually, look for my upcoming thread on facial expression and development of IS/Aiki! I explain the sock idea completely in that!)

Hi David

I look forward to it,

regards,

Mark


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