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dps 03-24-2009 09:01 AM

Primary Techniques for Self Defense
 
Which Aikido technique would be your first choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

Which Aikido technique would be your second choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

David

Flintstone 03-24-2009 09:28 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Taisabaki + Atemi

ChrisHein 03-24-2009 10:26 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
That question is almost impossible to answer.

Aikido's techniques link together very well. Because of this, it's hard to separate them.

For example, If I'm trying to take a weapon out of someones hand, kotegaishi will almost certainly come up. It's one of Aikido's higher percentage techniques. However to thwart my kotegaishi, the guy with the knife will very likely straighten his arm, this sets up a very nice rokyo, if he bends his arm from there to stop my rokyo attempt we get a nice nikyo set up, however I was suppose to limit my technique to one.

None of Aikido's techniques really stand out on their own in my opinion, but work really well together as a balanced machine. It's like asking if you could only have one part of a car which one would you pick. Well the engine would be nice, but it's kind of useless with out the rest of the car around it.

If I could only learn one unarmed technique to defend myself, I'd learn a Thai round kick. It's powerful, long ranged, and shocking when it hits you.

dps 03-24-2009 10:41 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 227097)
That question is almost impossible to answer.

Aikido's techniques link together very well. Because of this, it's hard to separate them.

For example, If I'm trying to take a weapon out of someones hand, kotegaishi will almost certainly come up. It's one of Aikido's higher percentage techniques. However to thwart my kotegaishi, the guy with the knife will very likely straighten his arm, this sets up a very nice rokyo, if he bends his arm from there to stop my rokyo attempt we get a nice nikyo set up, however I was suppose to limit my technique to one.

None of Aikido's techniques really stand out on their own in my opinion, but work really well together as a balanced machine. It's like asking if you could only have one part of a car which one would you pick. Well the engine would be nice, but it's kind of useless with out the rest of the car around it.

If I could only learn one unarmed technique to defend myself, I'd learn a Thai round kick. It's powerful, long ranged, and shocking when it hits you.

Ok but which two Aikido techniques( ikkyo, nikkyo shomenate, etc) would you want to know best for self defense.

Thank You

David

Mark Freeman 03-24-2009 11:36 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
1st choice - anything that works

2nd choice - anything that works

The 1st choice may well be to use words - they can be effective, withdrawing may also be considered. Aikido techniques? maybe. I dont see aikido as a bunch of techniques to be applied in a "if the attacker does this you do that", rather a mind/body/spirit state that if achieved puts you into an optimum state to deal with whatever life dishes up.

regards,

mark

ChrisHein 03-24-2009 05:24 PM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Hey David,
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but really, that question is almost impossible for me to answer.

If I had to pick one technique, that I thought was the most applicable to real life self defense. I'd pick katate dori.

I know that seems like a strange choice, but here's why. If someone really wishes to do me harm, they are not going to punch, kick or wrestle me. They are going to try and stab, shoot, or club me to death. If they are going to attempt that, my best chance is to close the distance and control the weapon, katate dori, is very very useful for this.

If they are not serious about hurting me, and they want to simply "beat me up", due to ego, momentary anger, or achieving social status. Their real desire is not to cripple or kill me, so the actual danger is less. However if they are willing to use a weapon to take my life, I want to have the ability to control that weapon.

Second choice would be Gyakute dori, same reason.

dps 03-24-2009 06:30 PM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 227118)
Hey David,
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but really, that question is almost impossible for me to answer.

If I had to pick one technique, that I thought was the most applicable to real life self defense. I'd pick katate dori.

I know that seems like a strange choice, but here's why. If someone really wishes to do me harm, they are not going to punch, kick or wrestle me. They are going to try and stab, shoot, or club me to death. If they are going to attempt that, my best chance is to close the distance and control the weapon, katate dori, is very very useful for this.

If they are not serious about hurting me, and they want to simply "beat me up", due to ego, momentary anger, or achieving social status. Their real desire is not to cripple or kill me, so the actual danger is less. However if they are willing to use a weapon to take my life, I want to have the ability to control that weapon.

Second choice would be Gyakute dori, same reason.

Chris,

I didn't think that you were trying to be a jerk.

I understand what you and Mark mean, I just wanted a straight forward answer wihout any philosophy of why or why not. Thanks.

My picks would be shomen ate and shiho nage.

David

Ketsan 03-24-2009 06:59 PM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 227089)
Which Aikido technique would be your first choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

Which Aikido technique would be your second choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

David

Something from aiki-ken, with a live blade.

Carsten Möllering 03-25-2009 02:18 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Hi
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 227120)
I just wanted a straight forward answer wihout any philosophy of why or why not.

I think there is no straight forward answer to your question.

atemi + tai sabaki is the answer I like best.

Quote:

My picks would be shomen ate and shiho nage.
I don't know Shodokan Aikido but does shomen ate work when attacked from behind?
Does Shiho nage work if you don't get an arm?

I experienced that Aikido looks quite different when used in a real self defence situation.

@ Chris Hein:

katate dori and gyakute dori don't describe techniques but are attacks. Can you please esplain me your thoughts?

Carsten

Abasan 03-25-2009 02:40 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Irimi, Ikkyo.

Dazzler 03-25-2009 04:57 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
I absolutely would not even think technique.

Think principles.

Irimi.

Atemi.

Or even better maai....don't even be there.

dps 03-25-2009 07:01 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

Daren Sims wrote: (Post 227126)
I absolutely would not even think technique.

Think principles.

Irimi.

Atemi.

Or even better maai....don't even be there.

Which two techniques do you think best represents these principles?

David

Dazzler 03-25-2009 07:17 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 227128)
Which two techniques do you think best represents these principles?

David

From my perspective, All techniques. If any technique is devoid of these principles then it will not be Aikido.

Of course atemi may not always be deployed in training - but opportunity to do so will exist.

Within my training techniques are simply a means to an end - they are tools to practice Aikido.

This is why I believe many Aikido "techniques" can be found in other arts yet these arts are not Aikido.

Others may hold a different view.

Regards

D

Demetrio Cereijo 03-25-2009 09:46 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 227128)
Which two techniques do you think best represents these principles?

Irimi & Atemi?

IMHO:


The classical Aikido clinch + headbutt.

ChrisHein 03-25-2009 09:56 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

Carsten Möllering wrote: (Post 227124)
Hi

@ Chris Hein:

katate dori and gyakute dori don't describe techniques but are attacks. Can you please esplain me your thoughts?

Carsten

"Attacks" are techniques as well. If you're not training the uke side like you train the nage side, you're missing half of what Aikido has to offer.

gdandscompserv 03-25-2009 10:00 AM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Every attack leaves an opening!:D

Erick Mead 03-25-2009 12:53 PM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 227128)
Which two techniques do you think best represents these principles?

Let me see if this metaphorical question makes sense and then answer it in kind.

"What two techniques best represent the principles of surfing?"

If this sounds like a nonsense question -- it is. That is not to deny that there are techniques of control and movement that can be learned and internalized. But they are not "representative" of anything, other than something someone else has done in meeting with a particular wave on a particular occasion, and has found to fit a characteristic pattern in all wave-riding, as it occurs in a given instance.

Only the vagaries of the particular wave and our immediate disposition and response to it define whether it was a "good ride." And yet we can recognize when we and others are surfing well, or doing aikido well, for that matter.

The most representative thing I can think of -- for ALL of aiki is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiQm9b4jEoM

dps 03-25-2009 12:53 PM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: (Post 227133)
Irimi & Atemi?

IMHO:


The classical Aikido clinch + headbutt.

That is only one (very advanced) technique.

David

Flintstone 03-25-2009 05:42 PM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

Daren Sims wrote: (Post 227129)
From my perspective, All techniques. If any technique is devoid of these principles then it will not be Aikido.

Not sure hiki otoshi adheres to the irimi principle... But agree on the rest.

James Edwards 03-25-2009 06:09 PM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

Mark Freeman wrote: (Post 227101)
1st choice - anything that works

2nd choice - anything that works

The 1st choice may well be to use words - they can be effective, withdrawing may also be considered. Aikido techniques? maybe. I dont see aikido as a bunch of techniques to be applied in a "if the attacker does this you do that", rather a mind/body/spirit state that if achieved puts you into an optimum state to deal with whatever life dishes up.

I agree with this :)

If you always thing about "what if he does this?", you're going to get stuck. If your mind is free then the right option will come naturally.

And verbal aikido should be emphasised too of course

tarik 03-25-2009 06:31 PM

Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 227089)
Which Aikido technique would be your first choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

Which Aikido technique would be your second choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

David

As Chris already commented, if you're thinking about techniques, you're already working in the wrong direction. Think about principles.

For me right now, that would be zanshin and taisabaki at this point in my understanding.

Regards,

Demetrio Cereijo 03-25-2009 09:33 PM

Re: Primary Techniques
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 227147)
That is only one (very advanced) technique.

It wasn't an answer to your original (and unanswerable) question but an (not so advanced, imho) example of irimi & atemi,

Mary Eastland 03-26-2009 05:41 AM

Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense
 
1. paying attention
2. correct distance

Mary

dps 03-26-2009 06:56 AM

Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense
 
If you had an opportunity to demonstrate to a group of people and due to time constraints could only show two examples of Aikido, what would you show.

David

Dazzler 03-26-2009 07:12 AM

Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense
 
Tai No Henka - Omote & Ura.

Why?

Because TNH contains the foundations of all Aikido hence the vast majority of classes starting with this basic reference.

Cheers

D


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