Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

What, you mean a bunch af MAers get together and someone might get hit and even thrown to the ground .... maybe even hurt?

Yeah, don't get hit and don't get thrown ... that's what I'm working on. I really have no idea how it is possible to work on that without someone trying to hit and throw you. Fail means getting hit and thrown. Learning from failure means getting hit and thrown less are steps in the right direction.

I don't know about the rest but I can tell if someone wants to hurt me just by looking into their eyes. When looking deep into Dans eyes I can't help but bust out laughing (my own personal training effort is to not laugh in those situations which is why I always look constipated).

If I gave the impression that Dan was out to hurt folks ... well, I almost always give off a funky vibe that gives the wrong impression. I'm wired weird or something. My momma loves me so I'll be alright.

PS My momma hits way harder than Dan and she means to hurt. It's for my own good.

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

My comments were not really directed to you or anyone else in this thread, and yes Lee is right, there is always a potential for someone to get hurt in MA, but my comment was really to let others know that Dan is not a dangerous person to train with, as has been mentioned various times in other threads mostly by people that have not met Dan - that was all.

Greg

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

Dan is one of the most dangerous people to train with because he might make you rethink everything you thought was true and make your world view crumble around you. You let someone like that get inside your head there will be damage

There are a few people around this forum that are just like that. They make you think and sometimes that can be painful indeed.

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

Yes, that is true - he can hit you hard internally in the head and you will never be the same afterward - his training always hurts my head :)

Greg

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

Agreed...shring notes on the plane home and some Powers after and my head still hurt..

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

Sorry, I didn't mean to be a stick in the mud. I guess it didn't come out quite right. It was just a public service announcement as penance for my own personal guilt in the matter. :o

By the way, did I mention how much Dan loves it when we talk about him in the third person? :D

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

Yes he does - and the next time I see him he will remind me how much he likes it with a few love taps to my chest :eek:

Greg

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

Well, I'm one of those idiots who likes to feel things myself. Sometimes Toby Threadgill does stuff at his seminars and I'm usually the thick skulled guy who'll raise his hand -- I just need to feel it. But then again I've been injured, cut, broken and bruised so many times it's just "par for the course" for me. But this time I was coming off breaking my tailbone a month or so ago. I had just hit the point when the doctor said I could resume "light" activity. And just from trying to rock a little on my butt on the mat I can tell you any falling would have been a *really* bad idea. Heck, I had to sit out a few things solely because I could feel it reverberate into the tailbone. So while I would have loved to have felt a push or punch (not at full power), I had to pass. Which I was disappointed at. Next time assuming I don't break something else along the way I'll be first in line. The point is sometimes feeling the "tonal quality" of things. Threadgill damned near breaking my wrist "gently" taking a sword away. Yes, I said gently. Meaning on his end he used very little power. On my end, well, I couldn't let go fast enough. Sore for 2 weeks. But that's okay, it answered a doubt I had when I saw it demonstrated on someone else ("hmmm, he's letting go early in anticipation -- he's not really holding on well"). I'm a firm believer in reality checks. And from what I could feel from Dan, he certainly has power, structure, and the ability to deliver it quickly and dynamically in motion. Which is devilishly difficult.

And you know, this is supposed to be martial arts. I know, loving protection and all that good stuff. But if you're training sincerely things will happen. Get used to it.

There is something I like to tell students. One great reason to study the martial arts and to really push it up a notch is to learn that getting into a fight *really* hurts. That helps you avoid them. But training getting hit a few times helps you realize that you can still function even after you've been punched. I've seen guys with many years of experience (but without ever having really sparred) get dazed by one good punch and stand there like a punching bag. I think it is a *really* good thing to get punched a few times. To learn that you can continue to function even when in pain. Or when knocked back. Have that attitude changing experience with a friend rather than someone trying to do you harm. Then maybe you can handle it when the person who wishes to harm you comes at you. I want to know what Dan's punch feels like so I can respond appropriately should it ever happen. Or, of course, so I can have it in my repertoire should I ever need it. Short distance powerful strike with no cocking and chambering and no loss of center. Good stuff.

I only wish I hadn't busted myself up the month before so I could have enjoyed more of it. The stiffness and the still swollen area around my lower back really messed with my ability to feel things like alignment. I felt off from my normal ability the whole weekend not to mention the fact I was trying to learn all new stuff.

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

I'd like to add my two cents... Great seminar! Lots of fun. LOTS of work. Dan did a heck of a job and made it really enjoyable... if you're goofy enough to sign up for two days of sweat and brain-bending, counter-intuitive body movement (which we clearly all were...)

I partook of a sample of the power Dan can put into a punch... :D (and I'm clear he wasn't trying too hard) but I bowed out before "level 4"... Clearly a man who can do what he says. And yes, there was a very different quality to the feeling, much more penetrating than any other hit I've taken...

This is the real deal. It's what I've been looking for since I was 18. To anyone who wants to understand how to begin to train your body to do the "magic" of martial arts, I strongly recommend attending a seminar with Dan as soon as you can.

I wanted to leave a big thank-you to Dan's students Mark, Tom, and Leon who helped me a lot. Also, a strong second to Mark Murray's comments! Yes - let's find a way to make this common instead of something wrapped in mystery.

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

-- Oops! Dan - great seminar! Thanks for the energy and time you put into it. I've attended plenty and this one is at the top of my list in terms of the value and quality of the experience.

I'm looking forward to training with you again. Please announce any upcoming seminars - especially if you end up in Seattle!

Review
 

Posted this on RSF and thought some might want to read it here.

People there got to experience what "internal" meant in the way of martial movement. How "internal power" (IP) can be generated without physical windup, how IP can be instantaneous, and still generate a considerable amount of force. Dan showed levels of "hitting" from structural power to dantien delivered power. Most on the receiving end had very wide eyes after the hit. :) Funny thing, though, is that Dan was really just "tapping" people. I've seen him deliver some force into his punches and he wasn't even close to doing that at this seminar.

One thing that, I think, stuck in people's minds was how seamless Dan's internal skills were from unarmed to armed. The internal skills drove the movement, whether it was from a fist or twin sticks or a sword. As a former kali student (and there was at least one other arnis/escrima/kali guy there), I had felt that experience first hand a couple years ago. But, those there could see it without having to get hit with a stick. :) Much better than me, who had to get hit repeatedly.

As someone who's been to several of these workshops, this one had an exception. Dan went over dantien development. So, kudos to some of the people there who were advanced enough for this stuff. I hadn't seen him do that at a workshop before. I thought it was funny (in a good way) that, at one point, when Dan was explaining dantien stuff, two people had hands on his abdomen area, and then whoosh, there were four or five people pushing to get hands on Dan.

Some of the people got to try to push on Dan with no effect. Some got to try to block his incoming punches, to no effect.

Overall, the people there were very bright, quick minded, hard working, and seemed to soak up a lot of the stuff that was thrown at them. And there was a lot of info. Of all the workshops I have been to, this one had the most people taking notes, and the most notes taken by each person. People seemed to be able to tell where the internal skills/internal power fit into their martial art without directly being shown, how IS/IP is at the base of their martial art, etc. Again, a very impressive group of people.

Shiko was one exercise that Dan went over. I had to laugh when someone said (paraphrasing), "like I need shiko to be more difficult to do". This version of shiko is not like normal Sumo shiko that most people see. Similar outward form, but not exactly.

Intent is one of the harder points to get across and train, but intent driven training was repeated throughout the weekend. Intent training is done in a relaxed manner, not with tension. Some noted that, while they had intent started, what we were working on was stronger and more refined.

Cross body work was shown and taught. How it goes from hand to opposite foot. Opposing forces was shown and taught. How there is never just one direction, but always two. Even when there is power being generated, the legs never are both open. One is opening while one is closing.

Bunch of other stuff, but I can't remember more off the top of my head.

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

A great time! Although in many ways a bitter sweet experience, in that it made me re-evaluate and reconsider everything i had been doing up to this point in time. But at least i now have a much clearer idea of what i should be aiming for.

Thanks to one and all, and to all those who made the trip from China worthwhile. And i hope to be able to train with Dan again in the future.

Allan

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

I'm still working on exercises and integrating/digesting what I learned/saw. Great workshop, highly recommended.

Funny thing was that I didn't think I understood much of anything about reverse breathing. Found out I was right. :) I have no idea what I"m doing.

Interesting also that I have found all sorts of new parts of my body to make sore.

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

Hi William,

Apologies all around. First for the delay in responding. I've been all over the place, mentally, since I got back. I should have posted this sooner.

And the mixup was my fault. I apologize for that. I had kept your spot but didn't realize Dan was filling application spots, so the mis-communication was my fault.

Again, I'm very sorry for the trouble I caused. I had really wanted to meet you and twice now it hasn't worked out. Let's hope third times the charm rings true.

Thank you,
Mark

Re: Dan Harden Workshop Nov 6 & 7 Santa Ana, CA
 

Would you be able to describe some of the differences in the way you were reverse breathing before and after the seminar?